Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
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27-10-2013, 11:19 PM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(27-10-2013 11:50 AM)Luminon Wrote:  .*



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28-10-2013, 04:05 PM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(25-10-2013 08:40 PM)Chippy Wrote:  Frankfurtian bullshit. This is intellectual charlatanry. Nonsense with a wafer thin pseudoscientific veneer.
You don't understand the difference between science and pseudoscience.
That doesn't make any sense.
Literal nonsense.
You will never be a social scientist if you continue thinking like that. Social scientists have to be good at communication. Communication is a social activity. It may involve people with other paradigms, different experiences, different languages and cultural values. Even bullshit may serve an important function or not be actually bullshit at all. Papers saying others are full of shit will not be graded, if I paraphrase someone.

(25-10-2013 08:40 PM)Chippy Wrote:  So what organs are responsible for producing "plasma of supersymmetric particles of some kind"?
The vital field is responsible. The vital field is held together by the bodily electro-magnetic field from blood circulation and controlled by electric activity of the nerve system.
But damn if I know what the ability itself is it actually good for. Very peculiar and very useless. Most of the time I use it for something entirely different, like passively sensing if I do my meditations right.
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28-10-2013, 04:32 PM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(27-10-2013 11:50 AM)Luminon Wrote:  Ah, so this wasn't clear enough to you? You want it with a state stamp, then?
More importantly, I suppose I can send it, then.

No, I mean that to be considered as science you have to present a coherent and falsifiable physical theory. You have not presented a coherent and falsifiable physical theory.

Some musings, sure. Possibly even of interest. But not a coherent and falsifiable physical theory. So there's nothing scientific to be considered. Subjective personal experience (which cannot even be articulated) is not compelling.

(27-10-2013 11:50 AM)Luminon Wrote:  I haven't defined 'it' because 'it' is a whole new can o' worms for all the local scientific purists.

That's not an answer.

(27-10-2013 11:50 AM)Luminon Wrote:  Something new perhaps, but what I describe is ancient. It's been around for millenia and Patanjali is just one of the newer guys who wrote about it. Ghosts and body energy are most likely to elicit the "not this shit again" reaction. So much for the couple centuries of modern science. It rests on assumptions that the thousand of so years of medieval superstitions are an accurate sample of the past.

That's not an answer.

(27-10-2013 11:50 AM)Luminon Wrote:  I can think of several obstacles that might ruin experiments of this kind. But they're all internal to the field itself, the subject has pitfalls of both natural and social sciences at once. The current methodologies are inadequate to the subject and instruments used. Some already tried to invent a new methodology, for example this:
http://www.human-inquiry.com/expsrcon.htm

Right then.

(27-10-2013 11:50 AM)Luminon Wrote:  All scientific language used to be gibberish. It started as a gibberish and even today it is, the difference is, we know what it refers to. Electron is the old name for amber. Atom is the old word for "indivisible", even though we split a lot of atoms nowadays. Vacuum refers to emptiness of breathable levels of air, even though we know nowadays, that the space vacuum is full of hard radiation and even has non-zero properties of its own. Any uninitiated stranger would say that scientists speak gibberish. The truth is, they speak in a jargon of the inner circle of the initiated.

But that's not so. The point of academic communication is to be clear and unambiguous. Scientists try very hard to use words which do not have other meanings. You facetiously say "the old name" or "the old word" without any regard for the fact that those words are from different languages.

You are misusing the terminology. You do not understand the terminology. You cannot arbitrarily and incoherently repurpose the terminology.

(27-10-2013 11:50 AM)Luminon Wrote:  If a person encounters a new phenomenon, he needs a name for it. Better yet, a name that has some descriptive power. But the description is necessarily pictorial and metaphorical, often historically outdated. In other words, gibberish. One person's professional jargon is another person's gibberish. How do we update the jargon? By the inner circle activities and debate. People from the public can hardly do that, anything that an outside person says, is marginalized as gibberish, because the inner circle does not know the thing that it refers to. If I say a "flying saucer", scientists will say that a ceramic pottery is too much of a heavy and fragile material to fly under its own power (that is, none).

No.

No, no, no.

Also no.

You can't just redefine scientific words to mean whatever the fuck you want.

If I was rambling on about anthropological entanglement or relativistic gentrification or crepuscular disestablishmentarianism, I can only hope that somebody would put me out of my misery, because I'd clearly have suffered serious brain damage. Because no matter how fervently I shove them together those words don't make sense.

(27-10-2013 11:50 AM)Luminon Wrote:  
(25-10-2013 08:56 AM)cjlr Wrote:  In which case the question you must first answer - before any other considerations might be made - is to determine whether your personal, subjective experiences are in fact reflective of anything at all external to yourself.
Is there a dispute that such experiences are at least internal to many other people, of today and history? I don't know if that counts as external. On some occasions, I found my experiences to be external and independently confirmed, but these occasions were never under my control, I don't know how to replicate them.
Perhaps some of the technologies I listed would make such experiments easy.

There're a hell of a lot of presuppositions there.

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28-10-2013, 04:35 PM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
Boring...I liked that time when we talked about practical answers for ghosts. I mean, sleep paralysis, that was awesome to hear about other peoples experiences.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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28-10-2013, 04:41 PM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(28-10-2013 04:32 PM)cjlr Wrote:  You can't just redefine scientific words to mean whatever the fuck you want.

If I was rambling on about anthropological entanglement or relativistic gentrification or crepuscular disestablishmentarianism, I can only hope that somebody would put me out of my misery, because I'd clearly have suffered serious brain damage. Because no matter how fervently I shove them together those words don't make sense.

It would be post-modernism. Especially French post-modernism.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-10-2013, 07:31 PM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(22-10-2013 11:36 AM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  Thats awesome, the "old hag" myth. I'd love to read your paper when your doneSmile

Well, it will be some time before I actually finish writing it. I'm busy with school at the moment. The majority of the historical research is already done; I've traced the origins of the related folklore to its source, actually two sources: 1) Incubus lore that stretches back close to 2,000 years and 2) "Wild Hunt" lore from the early 10th-century. I'm now trying to compile ethnographic material to help explain why the phenomenon is still so prevalent in religious communities.
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28-10-2013, 08:13 PM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(28-10-2013 07:31 PM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  
(22-10-2013 11:36 AM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  Thats awesome, the "old hag" myth. I'd love to read your paper when your doneSmile

Well, it will be some time before I actually finish writing it. I'm busy with school at the moment. The majority of the historical research is already done; I've traced the origins of the related folklore to its source, actually two sources: 1) Incubus lore that stretches back close to 2,000 years and 2) "Wild Hunt" lore from the early 10th-century. I'm now trying to compile ethnographic material to help explain why the phenomenon is still so prevalent in religious communities.
Well, they still hold a belief in demons, right? Other people see aliens, its their cultural bogeyman. Wild hunt, ever hear ghost riders in the sky? That song might have been inspired by that, huh. Its amazing really, that song has been sung by an incredibly large number of bands in various genres of music from country, rock, and heavy metal.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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28-10-2013, 08:32 PM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(28-10-2013 08:13 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  Well, they still hold a belief in demons, right? Other people see aliens, its their cultural bogeyman. Wild hunt, ever hear ghost riders in the sky? That song might have been inspired by that, huh. Its amazing really, that song has been sung by an incredibly large number of bands in various genres of music from country, rock, and heavy metal.

I'm sure they do still believe in demons. What has been written about Hag riding by past folklorists suggests that the concept of the Old Hag is passed on to basically scare people into being good Christians. The Hag is said to attack unbaptized children and people who haven't been to church in a while. The only way to ward her off is by praying. I'm hoping my ethnographic data brings support to this idea.

Yes, I've heard of the song. It is indeed inspired by the Wild Hunt. In fact, one folklorist wrote a paper about the Wild Hunt entitled "Ghost Riders in the Sky." He makes reference to the song in the first paragraph.
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28-10-2013, 08:54 PM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(28-10-2013 08:32 PM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  
(28-10-2013 08:13 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  Well, they still hold a belief in demons, right? Other people see aliens, its their cultural bogeyman. Wild hunt, ever hear ghost riders in the sky? That song might have been inspired by that, huh. Its amazing really, that song has been sung by an incredibly large number of bands in various genres of music from country, rock, and heavy metal.

I'm sure they do still believe in demons. What has been written about Hag riding by past folklorists suggests that the concept of the Old Hag is passed on to basically scare people into being good Christians. The Hag is said to attack unbaptized children and people who haven't been to church in a while. The only way to ward her off is by praying. I'm hoping my ethnographic data brings support to this idea.

Yes, I've heard of the song. It is indeed inspired by the Wild Hunt. In fact, one folklorist wrote a paper about the Wild Hunt entitled "Ghost Riders in the Sky." He makes reference to the song in the first paragraph.
Well there is also the story of Lilith, Adam's first wife of Jewish lore. After she refused to submit to Adam she was cast out of the garden and spawned demons with fallen angels. She vowed revenge for the curse set on her that many of her children will die during childbirth and see in all purposes was a succubus which is a female innubus. So she would take her revenge on newborn infants and the mothers and their children can only be protected by magical amulets.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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28-10-2013, 09:07 PM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(28-10-2013 08:54 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  Well there is also the story of Lilith, Adam's first wife of Jewish lore. After she refused to submit to Adam she was cast out of the garden and spawned demons with fallen angels. She vowed revenge for the curse set on her that many of her children will die during childbirth and see in all purposes was a succubus which is a female innubus. So she would take her revenge on newborn infants and the mothers and their children can only be protected by magical amulets.

Thanks for reminding me of that.
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