Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
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18-10-2013, 03:49 PM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(18-10-2013 03:32 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 11:22 AM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  Have you heard of sleep paralysis? Its like a glitch in your sleep cycle, your brain secretes a chemical that prevents you from acting out your dreams its rare but some people wake up during this, they are fully conscious but they are still dreaming. So they are laying down paralysed unable to move and they hallucinate various things. It really depends on the person. If they are really religious they will see demons, if they believe in ghosts they will see ghosts, and if they are a firm believer in aliens they will see aliens! This at leasts 90% of alien abduction cases. I guess it could very well be the pop-culture of the day that influence these hallucinations such as the belief of demons and evil spirits in ancient times. Most notably a succubus or incubus who primarily are said to sit on the body making it unmovable. Salvador Dali experimented with sleep deprivation to find inspiration for his paintings too. Probably not related but interestingTongue

I suffer from this on a regular basis. It has been a great pang for me since childhood. I have been on several medications to attempt to get restful sleep in lifetime, but nothing that helps without unintended negative consequences which outweigh the benefits.

In any case, as a very young child I was taken by the devil a few times, a few times as some unknown/unseen force. Once a witch had taken me. By the time I was a young teen it was usually unseen aliens. I don't know why I got the sense it was aliens, I just did. By the time I was in my late teens it was usually an unknown/unseen force again, with one exception of a small nimble creature which one might say was some type of nymph, fairy, or demon. Since I have been to war and gotten PTSD it has been a mix of terrorists or unknown forces again.
Damn that really sucks. Fascinating but sucks. To bad you can't choose what it is. Pretty girls would be nice Smile

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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18-10-2013, 03:53 PM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(18-10-2013 03:38 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 03:24 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  You can believe in 'ghosts' without believing that the essence of a person can survive physical death. Depends on how you define ghost. There is some evidence that suggests that somehow (don't ask, I dunno) remnants of sounds and possibly images can repeat long after the moment has passed. Some kind of time loop might be a possible explanation for some of the reported 'ghost' incidences. I saw a program on the Discovery channel years ago where they had recorded sounds of billiards being played in a courthouse decades after it had been converted from a billiards hall into a courthouse. The sounds allegedly precisely mimicked the sounds of ivory balls hitting one another. This is far from proof, but it is evidence that such a possibility exists.
I think I saw that special. Even if it was the case it doesn't need to be supernatural. Much like a magnetic tape recorder works(heres a nice link) http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/gad...sette1.htm
It is possible if these elements are present in the environment it could be the case. How the "recording" started is anyones guess.

Nope. As far as I am concerned there is nothing supernatural, period. By definition supernatural is outside of nature. It's all hogwash. I think it is safe to say there are still many mysteries for us to discover in nature which we don't understand. My problem with sounds being recorded in nature (something I am sure of) is that it would be quite difficult for us to explain how these items were audibly played, and what was the trigger.

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18-10-2013, 04:01 PM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(18-10-2013 03:53 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 03:38 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  I think I saw that special. Even if it was the case it doesn't need to be supernatural. Much like a magnetic tape recorder works(heres a nice link) http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/gad...sette1.htm
It is possible if these elements are present in the environment it could be the case. How the "recording" started is anyones guess.

Nope. As far as I am concerned there is nothing supernatural, period. By definition supernatural is outside of nature. It's all hogwash. I think it is safe to say there are still many mysteries for us to discover in nature which we don't understand. My problem with sounds being recorded in nature (something I am sure of) is that it would be quite difficult for us to explain how these items were audibly played, and what was the trigger.
Never said it was supernaturalTongue To infer supernatural is just lazy.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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18-10-2013, 04:04 PM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(18-10-2013 04:01 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 03:53 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Nope. As far as I am concerned there is nothing supernatural, period. By definition supernatural is outside of nature. It's all hogwash. I think it is safe to say there are still many mysteries for us to discover in nature which we don't understand. My problem with sounds being recorded in nature (something I am sure of) is that it would be quite difficult for us to explain how these items were audibly played, and what was the trigger.
Never said it was supernaturalTongue To infer supernatural is just lazy.

Just to clarify, I wasn't implying you were. Were you implying that that was my inference?

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18-10-2013, 04:07 PM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(18-10-2013 04:04 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 04:01 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  Never said it was supernaturalTongue To infer supernatural is just lazy.

Just to clarify, I wasn't implying you were. Were you implying that that was my inference.
My mistake bud, its okaySmile
Ghosts can make a good story though, right? I like the whole mythologies that came about. Its an ancient and a modern myth in the making.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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18-10-2013, 06:12 PM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(18-10-2013 11:22 AM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  Have you heard of sleep paralysis? Its like a glitch in your sleep cycle, your brain secretes a chemical that prevents you from acting out your dreams its rare but some people wake up during this, they are fully conscious but they are still dreaming. So they are laying down paralysed unable to move and they hallucinate various things. It really depends on the person. If they are really religious they will see demons, if they believe in ghosts they will see ghosts, and if they are a firm believer in aliens they will see aliens! This at leasts 90% of alien abduction cases. I guess it could very well be the pop-culture of the day that influence these hallucinations such as the belief of demons and evil spirits in ancient times. Most notably a succubus or incubus who primarily are said to sit on the body making it unmovable. Salvador Dali experimented with sleep deprivation to find inspiration for his paintings too. Probably not related but interestingTongue

I know all about sleep paralysis. Beyond my historical study of the phenomenon, I have suffered from this on occasion over the years. The worst event happened while I was serving in the military. I had not slept in so long that I was seeing shadows jump from hallway to hallway in my barracks. Later, when I finally got a chance to lay down, I heard the sound of the elevator screeching as it came closer to my floor. The weird thing was my barracks didn't have an elevator. I heard the doors open in my room, and then I felt a great weight on my chest. This was proceeded by the sound of evil, demonic laughter. After the even passed and I regained contoll over my limbs, I luckily had the presence of mind to know that this was the result of sleep deprivation. I probably would have claimed the devil had tried to possess me had I been a religious person at the time.
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18-10-2013, 06:34 PM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(18-10-2013 03:53 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Nope. As far as I am concerned there is nothing supernatural, period. By definition supernatural is outside of nature.

I'd go even stronger with my definitions.

Nothing can be supernatural. The term is only a placeholder - it's meaningless. What is "natural"? What, then, would "supernatural" necessarily entail?

Existence is interaction. If something interacts then it is observable. If something is observable then it is predictable. And if something is observable and predictable then it is natural.

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18-10-2013, 06:45 PM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(18-10-2013 06:12 PM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 11:22 AM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  Have you heard of sleep paralysis? Its like a glitch in your sleep cycle, your brain secretes a chemical that prevents you from acting out your dreams its rare but some people wake up during this, they are fully conscious but they are still dreaming. So they are laying down paralysed unable to move and they hallucinate various things. It really depends on the person. If they are really religious they will see demons, if they believe in ghosts they will see ghosts, and if they are a firm believer in aliens they will see aliens! This at leasts 90% of alien abduction cases. I guess it could very well be the pop-culture of the day that influence these hallucinations such as the belief of demons and evil spirits in ancient times. Most notably a succubus or incubus who primarily are said to sit on the body making it unmovable. Salvador Dali experimented with sleep deprivation to find inspiration for his paintings too. Probably not related but interestingTongue

I know all about sleep paralysis. Beyond my historical study of the phenomenon, I have suffered from this on occasion over the years. The worst event happened while I was serving in the military. I had not slept in so long that I was seeing shadows jump from hallway to hallway in my barracks. Later, when I finally got a chance to lay down, I heard the sound of the elevator screeching as it came closer to my floor. The weird thing was my barracks didn't have an elevator. I heard the doors open in my room, and then I felt a great weight on my chest. This was proceeded by the sound of evil, demonic laughter. After the even passed and I regained contoll over my limbs, I luckily had the presence of mind to know that this was the result of sleep deprivation. I probably would have claimed the devil had tried to possess me had I been a religious person at the time.
Exactly, people unaware of this phenomenon will ultimate claim it was a real ghost or other terror. Damn! Why can't it be anything pleasant? I never had it myself but damn are my dreams bizarre and frighteningly realistic.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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19-10-2013, 01:41 AM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(18-10-2013 06:34 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 03:53 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Nope. As far as I am concerned there is nothing supernatural, period. By definition supernatural is outside of nature.

I'd go even stronger with my definitions.

Nothing can be supernatural. The term is only a placeholder - it's meaningless. What is "natural"? What, then, would "supernatural" necessarily entail?

Existence is interaction. If something interacts then it is observable. If something is observable then it is predictable. And if something is observable and predictable then it is natural.

I'd agree to that definition in this context.

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19-10-2013, 03:19 AM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
On the subject of sleep paralysis. One of my lieutenants had experienced it once, and thought he was seeing a demon (a long haired black woman was sitting on him, apparently) until I explained to him what it really was. He understood, and was somewhat relieved and even told me to explain it to his friends who didn't believe him... yet insisted that it was a real demon. I really don't get it. Then some of my fellow soldiers came up with their own explanations. Two girls thought it was karma for something bad he did (like not observing the Shabbat...), and another tried to release bad energies from his body using crystals.

By the way, about ghosts. They can move things, right? So how come you don't see a ghost picking up a pen and writing something? Why does it always have to be a glass which needs to be moved across a board with letters written on it?
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