Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
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14-12-2012, 11:32 AM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
Conkles, you might find this interesting:
http://www.cracked.com/article_18828_the...tings.html

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14-12-2012, 12:00 PM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(13-12-2012 04:45 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  Take 10 people to that cave. Tell all 10 of them the stories of the massacre. Almost all of them will have feelings of dread, etc.

Take 10 more people but tell these 10 people that this cave was used by native Americans as a healing cave, it's imbued with mystical healing energies that calm the mind and body and regenerate energy and can even help heal illnesses and wounds, and none of them will feel any dread at all but most of them will feel a sense of well-being and peacefulness.

All 20 of them will tell you that these sensations came from outside themselves as if spirits or mystical energy were the cause.

But the truth is that it all comes from our own imaginations.

Take another 10 people and tell them nothing mystical at all. It's just a fun cave to explore and check out the rocks and stuff. Nobody will have any unusual sensations, good or bad.

Paranormal stuff is fun to read about and watch in movies. I love it too. So are other fun things like dragons and elves and (tomorrow) hobbits. And fairies, and cylons, and Jedi, etc. Totally cool. But it's all made up. All of it. Enjoy it because it's fun, not because it's possible.
This was before I had any knowledge of the history. I was told about the history more than a few weeks afterword. Also, I was skeptical, and still am. Just thought I would clarify.
(13-12-2012 04:54 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-12-2012 04:38 PM)conkles Wrote:  I think ghosts are a really interesting subject. I consider them possible, and I feel like I have experienced some supernatural and freaky shit before. I frequently go to a park called Starved Rock in Illinois where there was a large massacre of natives throughout the canyon system, and during certain times I enter caverns and have felt very uneasy and like I want to leave the area (feelings like dread or the feeling of being watched as well). I have also had other experiences in the house I grew up.

Then later I started watching Ghost Adventures. I have always watched other ghost hunting shows with a high level of skepticism, but this show truly seemed different. The things they capture on tape and the data they collect is incredible and compels me to find more and try and find more evidence to believe myself.

I just love paranormal stuff. Always have.


So you believe our personalities and/or consciousness can survive our physical death.

Please explain how that might work.
I do not believe exactly in our personalities or consciousnesses can survive our physical death, or at least exactly. But I know of quantum theory and string theory (if ANYBODY claims to understand them, then they obviously have no idea what they are), and I believe there may be some relationship between what humans perceive as "paranormal activity" and other things from other universes (dimensions) and quantum phenomena. My belief is strictly a hypothesis still awaiting testing.

Here is what I currently feel is possible: As 3 dimensional beings, we can perceive the third dimension, just as 2 dimensional beings would only be able to perceive 2 dimensions (presumably). If a 3D being appears to a 2D being, it appears as a 2D cross section. If anybody has seen the geometry movie "Flatland" or has read the book, that may be of help. So if we popped in a 2D world, the 2D being would see something like an MRI of whatever slice of body we happen to show them (say my abdomen), which would certainly look eerie. This same concept applies to objects of higher dimensions appearing in lower dimension and creating a strange 3D cross section that we see (what we may know as ghosts).

This is a very short and under-complicated attempt at spelling out what I hope to test one day and further understand, but here is a project that does a decent job at explaining many of the theories



We have a decent share of information about quantum mechanics that I hope will one day prove or disprove that this does or does not violate our current laws of physics, but as of right now I just think of this as an interesting field that we do not know about and that we can test further.
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14-12-2012, 12:07 PM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(14-12-2012 11:32 AM)KVron Wrote:  Conkles, you might find this interesting:
http://www.cracked.com/article_18828_the...tings.html
I love infra-sound. It explains a lot of "paranormal" activity, and I have definitely known it being used in concerts and DJ'ing. Waves influence how we live in so many different waves, and they can definitely fuck with perception, but I do not think it blankets all things paranormal.
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14-12-2012, 01:10 PM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(14-12-2012 09:21 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(14-12-2012 02:09 AM)bemore Wrote:  One thing I do know is we will all find out one day wether its real or not Cool
Why do you think that?
Because we all die.... then there is either nothing or something.

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The promises you break outweigh the ones you keep.
Paint upon the wall for the hundredth time.

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14-12-2012, 01:15 PM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(14-12-2012 01:10 PM)bemore Wrote:  
(14-12-2012 09:21 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Why do you think that?
Because we all die.... then there is either nothing or something.
And if there is nothing, you won't be finding out anything. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-12-2012, 02:56 PM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(14-12-2012 01:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-12-2012 01:10 PM)bemore Wrote:  Because we all die.... then there is either nothing or something.

And if there is nothing, you won't be finding out anything. Drinking Beverage


Nothing wrong with a good sleep. Smile

If there is something, we won't know either because we are not taking our brain with us, and all our info is in there. We would have nothing to reference things with, so no understanding or memories or anything.

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14-12-2012, 03:09 PM (This post was last modified: 14-12-2012 03:24 PM by conkles.)
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
When we die, all the energy holding our molecules together will be decomposed and effectively given back to the planet we took them from. After all, we are just atoms. And none of them are "ours," because as you sit and type and think there are atoms you just ate being put into you and atoms being brushed off yours skin. One day some of the atoms inside you had once been in a stalk of corn, which had some carbon dioxide it had taken from the air in photosynthesis. Most of that carbon is from engine emissions.
Even farther back, any single atom in any of those molecules had to be synthesized by immense heat and pressure, often only available in the stars. So we are part car, part plant, part stardust, and part anything we inhale or ingest, and in turn what they have ingested.

At the same time, all of those atoms have electrons, and quantum theory has shown us that electrons can be at the different places at the same time, or appear to transport over space and time, and exhibit other strange behavior that we cannot even begin to fully comprehend.


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14-12-2012, 03:17 PM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(14-12-2012 03:09 PM)conkles Wrote:  When we die, all the energy holding our molecules together will be decomposed and effectively given back to the planet we took them from. After all, we are just atoms. And none of them are "ours," because as you sit and type and think there are atoms you just ate being put into you and atoms being brushed off yours skin. One day some of the atoms inside you had once been in a stalk of corn, which had some carbon dioxide it had taken from the air in photosynthesis. Most of that carbon is from engine emissions.
Even farther back, any single atom in any of those molecules had to be synthesized by immense heat and pressure, often only available in the stars. So we are part car, part plant, part stardust, and part anything we inhale or ingest, and in turn what they have ingested.

At the same time, all of those atoms have electrons, and quantum theory has shown us that electrons can be at the different places at the same time, or appear to transport over space and time, and exhibit other strange behavior that we cannot even begin to fully comprehend.


Quote:Every one of us completely regenerates our own skin every 7 days. A cut heals itself and disappears in a week or two. Every single cell in our skeleton is replaced every 7 years.

http://stemcell.stanford.edu/research/

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The things you want to change will usually stay that way
The promises you break outweigh the ones you keep.
Paint upon the wall for the hundredth time.

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18-12-2012, 02:24 AM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(14-12-2012 02:09 AM)bemore Wrote:  Science has explained a lot to us, however there are a lot of mysteries like how can a particle be in many places at once and be nowhere at the same time? How this world is solid yet the only thing "holding it together" is the force between electrons and nuclei. Not that I know a lot about quantum physics and im not using it as a case to prove anything.
You see, that's an important point. If there was a different kind of matter surrounding us, with slightly different arrangement of the electrons and nuclei, it wouldn't collide or bond with us, maybe only weakly. As far as I'm concerned, our body dies and rots, no mystery about it. People theoretize that in death some energy of this body may separate, some light emissions or something and perhaps exist independently. I say, that's not using all the possibilities.
Care to tell me what do you think about the model of people as composite beings? I think it makes more sense, it's very materialistic actually.

(14-12-2012 02:09 AM)bemore Wrote:  One thing I do know is we will all find out one day wether its real or not Cool
Certainly, but I hope science won't be the last one to acknowledge it. I wonder when a cultural thing like seeing and meeting ghosts becomes impossible to ignore by science. What if ghost is not a natural phenomenon, what if it has a will of its own? That would be also a social phenomenon.

A year or two ago I've been on a trip in a small rural village in Bohemia. A guy was building an ecologic house in there, so he invited lots of volunteers and prepared some fun program for them. We slept in a clay and straw house, on a half-built floor, with mud everywhere, and the fun was terribly physically demanding, but we all had a great time.

Also, he was a keeper of a local "ecologic center", that is, kind of a guesthouse, summer school for children and other visitors to stay in and get familiar with various natural technologies, like root cleaning of sewage water, solar collectors, heat pump, floor heating and wine cellar. Mostly funded by the European Union.

The whole house was heavily rebuilt. It used to be a big old farming homestead or two together actually, complete with courtyard. It was about two hundred years old at least. A part of the old house remained in maximally authentic state, all the original stuff that the owners left, for people to see how the villagers lived. There was a story behind it too, sort of. The keeper told us the story of a couple of last generations of owners before the Communists came. The last owner was a man who married a young woman, he liked the young meat and she liked the old money, apparently. She got the better part, because he got old, weak and senile, while she was still relatively young and strong. So the keeper showed us a diary of the senile old man, where he documented all the wrongs, perceived or real, the wife did to him. She probably slept around too. Overall, it wasn't a nice story, lots of unhappy people lived there, not happy with what the other generation is doing with the household or who are they marrying. Village soap opera stuff, but nothing like murder or anything.

So the keeper was in charge of it all, of the school classes that stayed there and of their daily program. He had to deal with children and their teachers, so he took care of not telling them any history of the house or anything scary. And yet, things kept happening. IIRC, in that original un-reconstructed room some picture or cross kept falling down from a window on bed, or the diary kept opening or something was moved when nobody was there, stuff like that.

Also, reports kept coming from the children, for example, some children saw an apparition of a nice old woman in their modern, reconstructed room and asked if she was one of the owners. The keeper vehemently denied this, but actually, that room was once hers, one of the old original owners before things started going down with the family. Eventually I think he invited a priest to pray in the rural room or sprinkle it with holy water or something, which kind of helped. Maybe it got the old man's vengful ghost away.
Well, that's what he told us, when we got a tour of the household. You can have a look too, if you think anyone would feel scared in there:
http://www.paleta.cz/oucmanice/

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18-12-2012, 02:39 AM
RE: Ghosts, Spirits, Apparitions, and the like.
(13-12-2012 08:40 PM)poolboyg88 Wrote:  
(13-12-2012 05:10 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I don't really believe in ghosts, but I love the idea of them :-)




Be careful for what you wish for Dodgy
Well there's the damn proof for ya. She's got my rubber ducky. How the hell did that happen ? It must be the ghost of my ducky as mine is still here. I better call in the para-normal people. Oh wait. There already here. Weeping

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