Glad to be here
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10-04-2013, 09:18 AM
RE: Glad to be here
I like the idea. There are a lot of people who don't believe anymore, but miss the social aspects of church. No reason why such support should not be provided.

The word "church" is used for legal reasons, and I have no issue with that at all.

Welcome!

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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10-04-2013, 11:58 AM
RE: Glad to be here
ok!... lots of people very upset with the church thing so let me set the record straight. First, Our group is called Wisconsin Freethinker's Association, we'll have a website up in 3 or four days (finally) wisconsinfreethinkers dot com. We meet once a month in our center (I'm lucky to have a house that was designed as a banquet hall in a medievalish castle-like setting with a few acres of land) we can accommodate about 90 people in the great room. We discuss Christian apologetic strategies and counter arguments, we tend to focus those meetings in bible discrepancies and historical fallacies of religious groups, ancient christian sects and texts that never made it into cannon. Other times we discuss art, poetry, music, ancient writings, ancient languages, world religions and other subjects of the sort (we have bible scholars, philosophers, theologians, doctors, lawyers, etc. so we get good stimulating conversations). Other times we play poker and have cocktails, as simple as that. Now the controversial part... I was ordained a minister back in '98 and although I left the church I was never excommunicated so I still hold my ordination. A few months back a couple from the group wanted to get married but did not want a judge performing the ceremony or a church wedding so I married them, then a few others, they were able to have a nice wedding, the big dress, the flowers etc but no myths and legend, no blessings, just a union, but their marriage certificate had the First World Baptist Church name on it and it was raised in a meeting if there was a way to eliminate that. I did some research and to answer a question I saw, yes the state by constitutional right has to recognize a church regardless of what their belief or lack thereof is, that's the law. So we decided to incorporate a separate entity for legal purposes as the First Atheist Church of Truth (also website will be up in about 3 days at firstatheistchurchoftruth dot com). This is something we did FOR LEGAL PURPOSES, it is the only way the state would grant me clergy status outside the baptist church, therefor I can now marry a couple, same way I did before but their marriage certificate says First Atheist Church of Truth which I guess they find more appealing than Baptist. So, We're not a "Church" in the sense of doctrine or any other nonsense (although we have received about 25 requests for debaptizing, people wanted me to dry them with a towel or use a blow dryer to reverse their baptism....we don't do that sort of ridiculous asinine rituals), we don't collect donations or tithing, we don't even charge for the services or locale. We pay taxes even tho we are not required to for church purchases, We are atheists, agnostics, humanists and freethinkers. We're very educated and knowledgeable in our views and are able to defend them and debate in a civil way as well as provide support for other groups at local Jr. Colleges and Universities. We send out newsletters with articles each month and we have a blast in our meetings. My wife is a psychologist so she helps atheist parents present religion and atheism to their children in a way they understand it, we do work with youth groups in the same way and have a summer camp program for atheist/agnostic families who don't want their kids in a church sponsored camp, but we are not charlatans trying to evade taxes or make a buck...if we wanted that we would have opened an actual Christian church and would be rejoicing in everyone's ignorance and willingness to part with their money. The F.A.C.T. fraction of our group is exclusively for legal purposes and nothing else, please don't presume to know who we are until you actually do. If we're a bothersome presence here I have no problem removing myself from this website, I just happened to be browsing under my F.A.C.T. youtube account when I watched a video by this site so I registered under that email. I could have done it under Wisconsin freethinker's Association and would have if I had foreseen it would be so upsetting to some seeing a word that has no meaning in our life, our studies or discussions, just on a piece of paper two people sign when they don't want to be before a judge and actually enjoy a family gathering in the fashion christian weddings are performed. So there it is, I hope everyone can understand what we do and why but above all that this is not the message (or mixed signal) we send out. We advertise ourselves as W F A (Wisconsin Freethinker's Association) not the church name, that is for our members and those they know. If anyone has any questions, our email is wisconsinfreethinkers@gmail.com or info@wisconsinfreethinkers.com.
Regards to all and thank you for the welcome messages (even the not so welcoming ones) Sorry for the extra long post but I don't want to be misunderstood and certainly don't want my group to be marginalized from what seems to be a good source of knowledge and socialization among like minded individuals, after all that's what we promote ourselves. And I owe someone a video of my wedding, as soon as my wife gets home and locates it for me I'll upload it. Thanks for the patience.
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10-04-2013, 12:00 PM
RE: Glad to be here
Please see reply on next page, I address all concerns people have about our group.
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10-04-2013, 12:15 PM
RE: Glad to be here
Dude.

Paragraphs.

That is all.

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10-04-2013, 04:23 PM
RE: Glad to be here
...yeah, the "Enter" key isn't going to eat your finger.

sheesh

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10-04-2013, 07:45 PM
RE: Glad to be here
We distrust everyone's motives, I don't even trust me.
Welcome.

"Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's."- Mark Twain in Eruption
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10-04-2013, 09:30 PM
RE: Glad to be here
For the record I don't have a problem with the F.A.C.T thing so long. Though I do have to ask. Isn't it possible to get married by a judge? At least that's what I thought.

And though I can't speak absolutely for everyone here I can say that we've had some ....interesting people on this thread. So I doubt that everyone wants to kick you off ( So long as the rules are obeyed). I'm interested in what you bring to the table.

Friede

Fox

Just an outsider looking inn.
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10-04-2013, 09:58 PM
RE: Glad to be here
Hi Fox, I didn't assume anyone wanted to kick me off but I did want to clear the air. To address your question, yes, of course the judge option is available, the only thing we do for the members of W.F.A. is we give them full control of what is said and how, that is something a judge cannot do. So it's a matter of convenience for our members and friends, a judge has a "routine" to follow that can only vary slightly.
We can for example, as we did on our last wedding, say as the couple wanted "we witness this union of mind and body under no false gods and no false pretenses, We bring forward this couple who willingly accept each other, not so they can expect an illusion of eternal life, but enjoy the reality of this finite one and make the best of it" (exact words provided by the couple)
A judge might have a problem making those statements, and we've had far less eloquent ones. Another factor is we don't charge our members for the ceremony, the judge charges $250.00, so I guess economy plays a part in it as well.
Hope that answers your question.
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10-04-2013, 09:59 PM
RE: Glad to be here
I've also heard that you can be married by a ship's capatain, but I don't know the legal implications of having your wedding resided over by a judge, or captain. Does anyone know of an instance where a marraige has been "overturned" for not having been resided over by a proper authority?

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10-04-2013, 10:24 PM
RE: Glad to be here
As far as I know , anyone that is recognized by state authority can perform a wedding. Be it a judge, a captain, a satanist priest even the flying nun ministries. I suppose our members just enjoy deciding the format and wording used for their ceremony.
I have heard of marriages being overturned because the person presiding had no credentials...And on that note I should say that getting credentials is as simple as getting ordained online by any church group (at least in the states i have lived in) so really it's not a big deal or special position.
As a matter of fact, when I lived in Colorado Springs you could fill out the marriage license yourself and drop it off at the courthouse, go back a week later ad pay to retrieve your certificate, no judge priest or captain needed.
Regards
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