Global Warming
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03-02-2013, 11:45 PM
Global Warming
Ever since I was a adolescent (12-years-old) I have been an outdoors-man and seen the environment warm. I like it. The fishing seasons have gotten longer and the fish have gotten bigger. The doves are more numerous during dove season. Duck hunting is good, too. However, the Woodcock (northern gamebird) no longer make it down to my part of Texas (at least so I notice). I miss the Woodcock. Also, I no longer catch the Chain Pickerel in my freshwater pursuits - and haven't for at least 20 years.

Yeah...it's gotten warmer....a lot warmer. But I like it.

What about you?
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04-02-2013, 12:04 AM
RE: Global Warming
(03-02-2013 11:45 PM)Julius Wrote:  Ever since I was a adolescent (12-years-old) I have been an outdoors-man and seen the environment warm. I like it. The fishing seasons have gotten longer and the fish have gotten bigger. The doves are more numerous during dove season. Duck hunting is good, too. However, the Woodcock (northern gamebird) no longer make it down to my part of Texas (at least so I notice). I miss the Woodcock. Also, I no longer catch the Chain Pickerel in my freshwater pursuits - and haven't for at least 20 years.

Yeah...it's gotten warmer....a lot warmer. But I like it.

What about you?
Well I am in Canada and the winter can get quite chilly. Warmer would be nice. But if it means the melting of the ice caps then hell no, that's going to raise ocean levels and cut the level of land we have available. We need that land for crops, power plants, and homes for our escalating population.

I'm sure the creatures of the ocean won't mind though.

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04-02-2013, 12:10 AM
RE: Global Warming
(04-02-2013 12:04 AM)Aspchizo Wrote:  
(03-02-2013 11:45 PM)Julius Wrote:  Ever since I was a adolescent (12-years-old) I have been an outdoors-man and seen the environment warm. I like it. The fishing seasons have gotten longer and the fish have gotten bigger. The doves are more numerous during dove season. Duck hunting is good, too. However, the Woodcock (northern gamebird) no longer make it down to my part of Texas (at least so I notice). I miss the Woodcock. Also, I no longer catch the Chain Pickerel in my freshwater pursuits - and haven't for at least 20 years.

Yeah...it's gotten warmer....a lot warmer. But I like it.

What about you?
Well I am in Canada and the winter can get quite chilly. Warmer would be nice. But if it means the melting of the ice caps then hell no, that's going to raise ocean levels and cut the level of land we have available. We need that land for crops, power plants, and homes for our escalating population.

I'm sure the creatures of the ocean won't mind though.
Well...if those God-Damned pieces of freakin' Northern Ice would melt....wouldn't we all be better off? The Northern part of Canada could become a tourist destination, and a lot of Nothern Canada could grow crops for the world.

This would be good.
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04-02-2013, 12:43 AM
RE: Global Warming
(04-02-2013 12:10 AM)Julius Wrote:  Well...if those God-Damned pieces of freakin' Northern Ice would melt....wouldn't we all be better off? The Northern part of Canada could become a tourist destination, and a lot of Nothern Canada could grow crops for the world.

This would be good.
No, we would not be better off. Many of the places set up to grow crops at this time would no longer be able to due to intense heat, and tgere would be less land overall for crops and other things (which I have already mentioned). I'm sure you could find a lot of negative effects online, google it Wink

So what if Canada got warmer and attracted more tourists? The negatives easily outweigh the positives.

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04-02-2013, 01:05 AM
RE: Global Warming
(04-02-2013 12:43 AM)Aspchizo Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 12:10 AM)Julius Wrote:  Well...if those God-Damned pieces of freakin' Northern Ice would melt....wouldn't we all be better off? The Northern part of Canada could become a tourist destination, and a lot of Nothern Canada could grow crops for the world.

This would be good.
No, we would not be better off. Many of the places set up to grow crops at this time would no longer be able to due to intense heat, and tgere would be less land overall for crops and other things (which I have already mentioned). I'm sure you could find a lot of negative effects online, google it Wink

So what if Canada got warmer and attracted more tourists? The negatives easily outweigh the positives.
I disagree. If Canada became warmer then this would be a boon to the World! More people could be fed! More tourism! More happiness!

What is wrng with this?
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04-02-2013, 03:21 AM
RE: Global Warming
"What is wrng with this?"

The polar ice caps have an enormous amount to do with the weather on this planet. If the ice were to melt, weather in other parts of the world would be seriously affected. So much so that the places where food is grown would probably no longer support agriculture.

Everything has a consequence. Sometimes the consequence is good, sometimes it's neutral and sometimes it's catastrophic. Your scenario would produce the latter.
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04-02-2013, 03:34 AM
RE: Global Warming
Global warming is not just an increase in heat, it generates more wild, varried and extreme weather.

So yes you might like the increase in heat, but it comes at a cost, ie: more/stronger hurricanes, more/faster tornadoes etc..

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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06-02-2013, 05:13 AM
RE: Global Warming
This is the classic "Global warming isn't bad" argument. Here's skeptical science's basic answer:
Negative impacts of global warming on agriculture, health & environment far outweigh any positives.
Here’s a list of cause and effect relationships, showing that most climate change impacts will confer few or no benefits, but may do great harm at considerable cost.

Agriculture
While CO2 is essential for plant growth, all agriculture depends also on steady water supplies, and climate change is likely to disrupt those supplies through floods and droughts. It has been suggested that higher latitudes – Siberia, for example – may become productive due to global warming, but the soil in Arctic and bordering territories is very poor, and the amount of sunlight reaching the ground in summer will not change because it is governed by the tilt of the earth. Agriculture can also be disrupted by wildfires and changes in seasonal periodicity, which is already taking place, and changes to grasslands and water supplies could impact grazing and welfare of domestic livestock. Increased warming may also have a greater effect on countries whose climate is already near or at a temperature limit over which yields reduce or crops fail – in the tropics or sub-Sahara, for example.

Health
Warmer winters would mean fewer deaths, particularly among vulnerable groups like the aged. However, the same groups are also vulnerable to additional heat, and deaths attributable to heatwaves are expected to be approximately five times as great as winter deaths prevented. It is widely believed that warmer climes will encourage migration of disease-bearing insects like mosquitoes and malaria is already appearing in places it hasn’t been seen before.

Polar Melting
While the opening of a year-round ice free Arctic passage between the Atlantic and Pacific oceans would confer some commercial benefits, these are considerably outweighed by the negatives. Detrimental effects include loss of polar bear habitat and increased mobile ice hazards to shipping. The loss of ice albedo (the reflection of heat), causing the ocean to absorb more heat, is also a positive feedback; the warming waters increase glacier and Greenland ice cap melt, as well as raising the temperature of Arctic tundra, which then releases methane, a very potent greenhouse gas (methane is also released from the sea-bed, where it is trapped in ice-crystals called clathrates). Melting of the Antarctic ice shelves is predicted to add further to sea-level rise with no benefits accruing.

Ocean Acidification
A cause for considerable concern, there appear to be no benefits to the change in pH of the oceans. This process is caused by additional CO2 being absorbed in the water, and may have severe destabilising effects on the entire oceanic food-chain.

Melting Glaciers
The effects of glaciers melting are largely detrimental, the principle impact being that many millions of people (one-sixth of the world’s population) depend on fresh water supplied each year by natural spring melt and regrowth cycles and those water supplies – drinking water, agriculture – may fail.

Sea Level Rise
Many parts of the world are low-lying and will be severely affected by modest sea rises. Rice paddies are being inundated with salt water, which destroys the crops. Seawater is contaminating rivers as it mixes with fresh water further upstream, and aquifers are becoming polluted. Given that the IPCC did not include melt-water from the Greenland and Antarctic ice-caps due to uncertainties at that time, estimates of sea-level rise are feared to considerably underestimate the scale of the problem. There are no proposed benefits to sea-level rise.

Environmental
Positive effects of climate change may include greener rainforests and enhanced plant growth in the Amazon, increased vegitation in northern latitudes and possible increases in plankton biomass in some parts of the ocean. Negative responses may include further growth of oxygen poor ocean zones, contamination or exhaustion of fresh water, increased incidence of natural fires, extensive vegetation die-off due to droughts, increased risk of coral extinction, decline in global photoplankton, changes in migration patterns of birds and animals, changes in seasonal periodicity, disruption to food chains and species loss.

Economic
The economic impacts of climate change may be catastrophic, while there have been very few benefits projected at all. The Stern report made clear the overall pattern of economic distress, and while the specific numbers may be contested, the costs of climate change were far in excess of the costs of preventing it. Certain scenarios projected in the IPCC AR4 report would witness massive migration as low-lying countries were flooded. Disruptions to global trade, transport, energy supplies and labour markets, banking and finance, investment and insurance, would all wreak havoc on the stability of both developed and developing nations. Markets would endure increased volatility and institutional investors such as pension funds and insurance companies would experience considerable difficulty.

Developing countries, some of which are already embroiled in military conflict, may be drawn into larger and more protracted disputes over water, energy supplies or food, all of which may disrupt economic growth at a time when developing countries are beset by more egregious manifestations of climate change. It is widely accepted that the detrimental effects of climate change will be visited largely on the countries least equipped to adapt, socially or economically.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-w...atives.htm

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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06-02-2013, 06:41 AM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2013 06:46 AM by Zat.)
RE: Global Warming
Recommended reading: "Climate Wars" by Gwynne Dyer.

World class journalist and historian, he spent 2 years researching that book, interviewing all major players on the field all over the world.

His articles (many on them on global warming and geo-engineering) can be seen at: http://www.straight.com/user/25849

Highly detailed, reasoned, with a wry sense of humour.

I respect him because he has no ax to grind -- just telling the way he sees it -- as a historian should.

Quote:So the fourth phase of the climate talks, probably starting late this decade, will be about when it is time to start geo-engineering, and what techniques should be used, and who controls the process. They won’t
agree on that either, so things will drag on further until some government, desperate to save its people from starvation, decides to do it alone, without global agreement. That could cause a major war, of course. So we had better hope that neutral observers like the fossil fuel industries are right in insisting that global warming is a fraud.
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06-02-2013, 08:30 AM
RE: Global Warming
(04-02-2013 12:10 AM)Julius Wrote:  Well...if those God-Damned pieces of freakin' Northern Ice would melt....wouldn't we all be better off? The Northern part of Canada could become a tourist destination, and a lot of Nothern Canada could grow crops for the world.

This would be good.
If you like starving, heavily-armed tourists by the million, sure. Can't grow much food in salt water, though.

It's not the mean god I have trouble with - it's the people who worship a mean god.
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