Go to jail for being an Atheist
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26-11-2012, 04:20 PM
RE: Go to jail for being an Atheist
(26-11-2012 04:00 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  Oh pshaw!

I'm a big fan of separation of church and state. I am an atheist living in Utah, the Mormon Vatican state. I get it.

But the plaque is just a plaque. It's not a slippery slope. It's not an open door for Christians to creep back into schools and governments. The word "egregious" was used in the linked article and by at least one poster in this thread. It's not egregious. It's barely even noticeable.

On the other hand, we march to war over this plaque and it just polarizes the religious community. "Oh, look, those stupid atheists are getting all bent out of shape about this little plaque? There all a bunch of over-reacting hot-heads trying to legislate god out of our lives". Fine. Let them think that, I can't stop them - but if we must polarize them, right here, right now, can't we at least do it over something more "egregious" than a stupid little plaque?
How is it that you're ignoring the prison time and the law that was passed? This is clearly about more than just the plaque.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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26-11-2012, 04:35 PM
RE: Go to jail for being an Atheist
(26-11-2012 04:17 PM)tikidoc Wrote:  Aseptic Skeptic, I completely disagree. It is not just about a plaque. It is setting a precedent that violating the first amendment is OK. That they can get away with it. This kind of thing would never have even come up 20 years ago, because it would have been unacceptable. The fact that this was even passed into law says a lot about the shift towards theocracy in our society over the last 2-3 decades. This kind of thing needs to be challenged, every single time.
Wouldn't have come up 20 years ago?

In 1957 we added "in God We Trust" to our paper currency, issued by the federal government. That was more than 20 years ago.

In 1864 we added it to our coins. Way way more than 20 years ago.

In 1954 we added "Under God" to the official national Pledge of Allegiance used in all U.S. schools. That was more than 20 years ago.

Nothing has changed today nor in the last 20 years. Don't go all mooney-eyed claiming that we would never stand for such "unacceptable" "violations" 20 years ago, because obviously we would have. Our shift towards theocracy is much longer than you seem to think.

Further, this little plaque on one building in a state overrun with theists isn't going to make them more theistic nor make them more likely to push for something that actually is "unacceptable" or actually is a "violation" or actually is egregious tomorrow or next week or next year. Fighting it won't make them any less likely to do that stuff either.

It's such a little, nit-picky, crappy thing to squabble over. We should be going after the big stuff like Rick Perry's nonsense in Texas. Now that really is egregious (no, I don't live in Texas) and should be stopped.

This plaque? Stupid trivium. The world will go on with or without the plaque.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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26-11-2012, 05:11 PM
RE: Go to jail for being an Atheist
(26-11-2012 04:35 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  
(26-11-2012 04:17 PM)tikidoc Wrote:  Aseptic Skeptic, I completely disagree. It is not just about a plaque. It is setting a precedent that violating the first amendment is OK. That they can get away with it. This kind of thing would never have even come up 20 years ago, because it would have been unacceptable. The fact that this was even passed into law says a lot about the shift towards theocracy in our society over the last 2-3 decades. This kind of thing needs to be challenged, every single time.
Wouldn't have come up 20 years ago?

In 1957 we added "in God We Trust" to our paper currency, issued by the federal government. That was more than 20 years ago.

In 1864 we added it to our coins. Way way more than 20 years ago.

In 1954 we added "Under God" to the official national Pledge of Allegiance used in all U.S. schools. That was more than 20 years ago.

Nothing has changed today nor in the last 20 years. Don't go all mooney-eyed claiming that we would never stand for such "unacceptable" "violations" 20 years ago, because obviously we would have. Our shift towards theocracy is much longer than you seem to think.

Further, this little plaque on one building in a state overrun with theists isn't going to make them more theistic nor make them more likely to push for something that actually is "unacceptable" or actually is a "violation" or actually is egregious tomorrow or next week or next year. Fighting it won't make them any less likely to do that stuff either.

It's such a little, nit-picky, crappy thing to squabble over. We should be going after the big stuff like Rick Perry's nonsense in Texas. Now that really is egregious (no, I don't live in Texas) and should be stopped.

This plaque? Stupid trivium. The world will go on with or without the plaque.
It'd be better to say that we've been moving AWAY from theocracy for the past six centuries or so. In a 10-steps-forward, 9-steps-back sort of way.

"If I ignore the alternatives, the only option is God; I ignore them; therefore God." -- The Syllogism of Fail
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26-11-2012, 08:55 PM
RE: Go to jail for being an Atheist
Fuck Kentucky lawmakers. That is all...

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26-11-2012, 09:18 PM
RE: Go to jail for being an Atheist
Great conversations in jail/prison I suppose.

What are you in for?

Murder

Armed Robbery

I was cooking and selling meth

Rape

I don't believe in a god.

Yep, makes perfect sense. Damn heathens them thar Atheists, they are among the worst criminals in the land. Hobo

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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26-11-2012, 10:06 PM
RE: Go to jail for being an Atheist
Substitute the word "female" in that law. How do you feel about it now?

How about "red headed?"
"Left handed?"
"Video game player?"

It's an arbitrary, highly selective form of bigotry. Let this one slide and you'll get one of the others next.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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26-11-2012, 11:11 PM (This post was last modified: 26-11-2012 11:14 PM by Starcrash.)
RE: Go to jail for being an Atheist
(26-11-2012 02:35 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  I, for one, wish that our Supreme Court didn't have to get involved in petty crap like this. Shouldn't they have better things to do? Is deciding whether a plaque hangs on a building really a "supreme" use of a court?

Yes. Yes it is. That is the primary function of the state Supreme Court -- to look at laws passed by their state legislature and decide whether they violate the state constitution or US Constitution. So if a "plaque hanging on a building" violates the constitution, then it is a "supreme" use of the court.

It's hard to imagine that you're even being serious. Who would you think should "get involved in petty crap like this", an obvious breach of the establishment clause, if not the Supreme Court?

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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26-11-2012, 11:20 PM
RE: Go to jail for being an Atheist
(26-11-2012 04:35 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  It's such a little, nit-picky, crappy thing to squabble over. We should be going after the big stuff like Rick Perry's nonsense in Texas. Now that really is egregious (no, I don't live in Texas) and should be stopped.

This plaque? Stupid trivium. The world will go on with or without the plaque.
And this is a red herring, suggesting that we should ignore something small in favor of something bigger (instead of taking care of both problems, which is entirely possible)... even though your definition of bigger is clearly different than mine. "Rick Perry's nonsense" has not cost anyone their freedom.

It's true that the US added "In God We Trust" to our currency, and that was also stupid. Past mistakes don't excuse future ones. But at least no one would go to jail for refusing to use such currency in favor of non-Christianed currency (like a debit card) or for scratching out that motto on their paper money.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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30-11-2012, 02:46 AM
RE: Go to jail for being an Atheist
In my opinion, they can't enforce this law. Anyone they arrest for this can bring a lawsuit against the state for any losses due to this unconstitutional action.
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