God’s law versus secular law. Which is moral?
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17-11-2012, 12:20 AM
RE: God’s law versus secular law. Which is moral?
I grok what you're trying to say. But you're playing the exact game you're describing, and making it up like it's noble. The arrogance of YOU trying to tell ME what I think and why I do what I do is staggering.

I made a comment, quite likely one that I shouldn't have made, and you flipped your shit. I was READY to apologize, then you went on being a bastard. I asked you to back down, cool off, and we could do this civilly. Instead YOU kept on with ad hominem attacks. That doesn't help you in any way, and it makes you out to be an arrogant punk (to borrow your terminology), and I will not apologize to an arrogant punk that will not back down.



Which leaves us at an impasse. Neither of us will back down. You want me to grovel and abase myself for the unforgivable, inimitable crime of offending you. I want you to back off and stop acting like some offended fucking 14th century noble whose pride is sacred.

What is your solution to this dilemma?

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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17-11-2012, 12:27 AM
RE: God’s law versus secular law. Which is moral?
Apologies aren't conditional and I won't ask for one. Do what you think is right.
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17-11-2012, 01:04 AM
RE: God’s law versus secular law. Which is moral?
*sigh* oh gosh... we still on this topic?


lemme clear the air for you all....

FUCK God.... Fuck God sideways if ya want.. i don't care.. just shove it up his netherlands.. twist it around and blow yer cap... ...



in case ya missed it...

Fuck ....... God..... and Jesus can suck my cock at the same time...

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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17-11-2012, 01:06 AM
RE: God’s law versus secular law. Which is moral?
I think we can all agree on that, at least.


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E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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17-11-2012, 07:19 AM
RE: God’s law versus secular law. Which is moral?
(15-11-2012 08:49 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Neither.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
Both.

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17-11-2012, 07:24 AM
RE: God’s law versus secular law. Which is moral?
(17-11-2012 07:19 AM)Humakt Wrote:  
(15-11-2012 08:49 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Neither.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
Both.
Care to elaborate? Consider

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17-11-2012, 07:48 AM
RE: God’s law versus secular law. Which is moral?
(17-11-2012 07:24 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(17-11-2012 07:19 AM)Humakt Wrote:  Both.
Care to elaborate? Consider
Sure, both are systems of morals. Therefore, both are moral. Being moral, however says nothing about weather hey are "right" or not. It is common, for people to that is moral and mean that is a good thing or that that is immoral and mean that is a bad thing. To avoid, Godwin, take the regime of Pol Pot and the Khymer Rouge there particular political philosophy and moral structure is a perfect example, most would call them immoral, ignoring that they are acting morally.
So to sum up,

Moral does not equal good or right, it equals acting in accord with a system of morality.

Immoral does not equal bad or wrong, it equals acting in opposition with a system of morality.

It is of course important to that the system of morality in question, is the system to which the agent subscribes.

Although, in the case set out by the OP, this is an abstraction. He is not interested in the agents, but the systems. In these cases, I would be tempted to say that "Gods Law" is perhaps more a moral system that secular law, again this isnt a right or wrong thing, but a question of moral systems "Gods law" is presented part and parcel in document that sets out a system of morality that "Gods law" is supposed to operate within, its fitness for that purpose is pretty questionable though. Secular law, is far close to an ethical structure than a moral one in that it is a compulsory code of conduct.

I could go on, but I need to go do some stuff in RL, so I'll leave it at that.

Legal Disclaimer: I am right, I reserve the right to be wrong without notice, opinions may change, your statutory rights are not affected, opinions expressed are not my own and are an approximation for the sake of communication.
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17-11-2012, 08:50 AM
RE: God’s law versus secular law. Which is moral?
Yet another false dichotomy.

The holy texts aren't legal documents, so we can just rule them out.

All secular law is an approximation of justice, which is an approximation of ethics, which is an approximation of morality.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-11-2012, 05:48 PM
RE: God’s law versus secular law. Which is moral?
(16-11-2012 10:35 PM)Ghost Wrote:  I was pretty clear about why I dislike it in my last post. It's a punitive system and punitive systems suck.

I'm not an anarchist. This isn't a binary thing. It's not a question of, we either have secular law or we have nothing. I'm for an alternative.
I'm stunned. I don't even know what to say about this. Secular means without religion, non-religious, not connected to religion, etc. So an alternative to this would be religious laws (or anarchy, which you clearly don't support either). Are you suggesting that we ought to have religious laws, especially after you noted that "God's law" is equally faulty? I guess I just have no idea what you mean when you talk about an alternative.

I'm not sure I can even have this debate with you, because I don't think you even understand what I mean when I talk about secular law. You even keep defining it within the realm of US law (when you talk about the wealthy being exempt), as if we were the only country with non-religious laws. Do you simply not like the laws that are currently in place? Do you enjoy the laws but wish they applied equally (because you insist that they don't)? Do you think that laws can't work without religious influence? Or do you even know what you mean?

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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17-11-2012, 05:54 PM
RE: God’s law versus secular law. Which is moral?
(17-11-2012 08:50 AM)Chas Wrote:  Yet another false dichotomy.

The holy texts aren't legal documents, so we can just rule them out.

All secular law is an approximation of justice, which is an approximation of ethics, which is an approximation of morality.
So basically what you're saying is that you don't believe there is such a thing as "God's law". Obviously most of us (those living outside of the Middle East) don't live in theocracies, but I think what the OP was suggesting was "law" in the context of "rule". Since secularists don't have a book of rules (a holy book), then in that context only it means what we usually refer to as "laws". In the religious context, it means rules from the holy book... which is an approximation of morality (from the believers' standpoint), so it is almost a dichotomy... you either have rules based on religion or from a non-religious standpoint. It's 'almost' a dichotomy because you could choose no rules (anarchy), but I don't know any anarchists and I doubt you are one, either.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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