God?
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29-03-2013, 05:15 PM
RE: God?
(29-03-2013 04:53 PM)Doctor X Wrote:  
(29-03-2013 04:32 PM)Simon Moon Wrote:  I'll bet we would both agree that stopping the child rapist is the moral thing to do.

Oh no, not at all! You are denying the child and her parents "wisdom" and "togetherness!" In fact, by letting the child get raped, Kim Kardashian will afford another liposuction.

In fact, fuck the kid! I needed a parking space. I prayed and got one. So, too bad for the kid. Tell her to "lie back and think of England" or, if she is Catholic, it is her damn fault for attracting the attention of the rapist.

Thus, the level of disgusting apology necessary for him to maintain the fairy tale.

--J.D.


I really get some sort of sadistic pleasure out of seeing theists go through all sorts of mental gymnastics when, confronted with questions like this, they discover that their morals are better than their god's.

They know it would be immoral to let a child be raped if it was possible to prevent it, but their moral compass has been so poisoned by their beliefs, they are forced to come up with excuses for their god.
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29-03-2013, 05:21 PM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2013 10:52 PM by Doctor X.)
RE: God?
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Those who administer and moderate in order to exercise personal agenda merely feed into the negative stereotype of Atheism
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29-03-2013, 06:38 PM
RE: God?
(29-03-2013 04:32 PM)Simon Moon Wrote:  
(29-03-2013 02:54 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  The claim by the original poster is God is evil because He allows bad things to happen in the world.
I make a counter argument that perhaps God allows bad things to happen so that humanity has the incentive to engage in things like science and such in order to come up with solutions. Tragedy brings us together and provides us an incentive to learn.

If you saw a child rapist about to enter a room to rape a child, would you stop them? Would it be evil for someone that has the ability to stop them, to let them rape the child?

I'll bet we would both agree that stopping the child rapist is the moral thing to do.

If God should stop this morally wrong act then wouldn't you agree that God should stop all morally wrong acts? Should He strike you dead with a lightening bolt because you claim on your taxes a TV you donated to Goodwill was worth a hundred bucks when maybe it was in such poor condition you knew it was really only worth five bucks?

Or do you think God should only stop the morally wrong acts that you think He should stop?
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29-03-2013, 06:40 PM
RE: God?
(29-03-2013 04:21 PM)Doctor X Wrote:  
(29-03-2013 02:54 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  The claim by the original poster is God is evil because He allows bad things to happen in the world.

I make a counter argument that perhaps God allows bad things to happen so that humanity has the incentive to engage in things like science and such in order to come up with solutions.

Which is as discussed extensively: Evil.

Quote:Tragedy brings us together and provides us an incentive to learn.

The child learns nothing.

How easily you sentence the innocent to suffer for your need to believe in a fairy tale.

Quote:Instead of countering my counter argument, you engage in obsfuscation with your incessant referral to people lying in their own poop

It is called "reality" son. I suggest you try living in it before you so happily sentence others to it. The children suffering it have no choice to be as self-deluded as you.

Quote:and enage in ad hominem attacks like calling me a sad person.

"All other titles thou hast given away."

Quote:You realy haven't said anything of substance in this thread.

Oh given the response, I think you have been successfully exposed for what you are. You have also been exposed as unable to deal with reality.

Not sorry to make you cry.

--J.D.

Again you try to insult me or get me made by claiming you made me cry....--and still you have said nothing of substance.
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29-03-2013, 07:03 PM
Re: RE: God?
(29-03-2013 06:38 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(29-03-2013 04:32 PM)Simon Moon Wrote:  If you saw a child rapist about to enter a room to rape a child, would you stop them? Would it be evil for someone that has the ability to stop them, to let them rape the child?

I'll bet we would both agree that stopping the child rapist is the moral thing to do.

If God should stop this morally wrong act then wouldn't you agree that God should stop all morally wrong acts? Should He strike you dead with a lightening bolt because you claim on your taxes a TV you donated to Goodwill was worth a hundred bucks when maybe it was in such poor condition you knew it was really only worth five bucks?

Or do you think God should only stop the morally wrong acts that you think He should stop?

Not necessarily because people often differ on if something not infringing on anothers choice or "free will" counts the same as something that does... Such as rape.

One would think God should live by his own rules laid down though. Almost no personifications of gods written do that. Because they're that hypocritical parent figure.
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29-03-2013, 07:29 PM
RE: God?
Heywood, at what point will you concede this quest to vindicate your god?

After the Newtown shooting, my parents (both very religious) both sent me an email concerning it. My mother's email was a cutesy little poem (I'm sure a lot of you have seen it) about a bunch of happy, smiling children bursting through the pearly gates to be with jesus for eternity in heaven. This poem then concludes with a sentiment about getting prayer back in school. I went with my better judgement and didn't reply back about how disgustingly twisted this thought was, that god essentially made the shooting happen the way it did because for some reason he just had to have some fresh young souls in heaven right away.

My father's email was different. His simple message was to trust that god knows what he's doing even when his plan is utterly perplexing.

I liked that. No apologies, no mental gymnastics. A simple "Well, fuck. That doesn't make much sense."

This is all you need to do. You cannot rationalize god's role in the injustices of this world. By your own admission god is far too complex and great for us mere humans to comprehend, and yet you fall all over yourself trying.

It is beyond our cognitive capabilities to understand these things. This is the reason atheists argue it as evidence against such a god. Occam's razor. It makes much more sense that there is no god, or it just doesn't really give a good goddamn. You keep on spinning in circles if you want, we'll carry on with reality.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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29-03-2013, 07:36 PM
RE: God?
Heywoodian tactics

1 Never define anything about your own belief.

2 Deny, or change beliefs on the spot.

3 Use mysteries as a cover up for contradictions and impossible notions.

4 Annoy atheists, claim victory.

Member of the Cult of Reason

The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
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29-03-2013, 08:19 PM (This post was last modified: 29-03-2013 08:22 PM by Heywood Jahblome.)
RE: God?
(29-03-2013 07:36 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  Heywoodian tactics

1 Never define anything about your own belief.

2 Deny, or change beliefs on the spot.

3 Use mysteries as a cover up for contradictions and impossible notions.

4 Annoy atheists, claim victory.

My belief concerning the problem of evil is this. A person can make a rational argument that God should stop all evil acts...of course as a consequence free will goes out the window. A person can also make a rational argument that free will prevents God from interfering at all. However if a person makes an argument that God should prevent some evil acts and not others...then that persons position isn't based on a rationale argument but rather it is based on their own personal values.

I don't find peoples value judgements to be convincing arguments.

My own opinion is the gift of freewill prevents God from interceding.
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29-03-2013, 08:24 PM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2013 10:52 PM by Doctor X.)
RE: God?
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Those who administer and moderate in order to exercise personal agenda merely feed into the negative stereotype of Atheism
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29-03-2013, 08:24 PM
RE: God?
(29-03-2013 08:19 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(29-03-2013 07:36 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  Heywoodian tactics

1 Never define anything about your own belief.

2 Deny, or change beliefs on the spot.

3 Use mysteries as a cover up for contradictions and impossible notions.

4 Annoy atheists, claim victory.

My belief concerning the problem of evil is this. A person can make a rational argument that God should stop all evil acts...of course as a consequence free will goes out the window. A person can also make a rational argument that free will prevents God from interfering at all. However if a person makes an argument that God should prevent some evil acts and not others...then that persons position isn't based on a rationale argument but rather it is based on their own personal values.

I don't find peoples value judgements to be convincing arguments.

My own opinion is the gift of freewill prevents God from interceding.

But if god is all knowing, past, present, and future, it kind of negates the idea of freewill doesn't it? And if freewill prevents god from anything, god's not all powerful is he?

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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