God - Ahh Ahhh - Creator of the Universe
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29-01-2013, 05:33 PM
RE: God - Ahh Ahhh - Creator of the Universe
(29-01-2013 07:21 AM)Vosur Wrote:  As long as there is no empirical evidence to make a decision either way, I'll stick with agnostic atheism (or agnostic adeism, for that matter). Cool

The fact that the term "adeist" doesn't actually exist bothers me. Deism is much more vague and open to logic, and so adiesm would actually be slightly more worthy of mockery. It wouldn't be correct to mock them, but "some force somewhere out there that set it all in motion" is a bit harder to argue against, making adiesm a mockable stance. Meanwhile, the term for disagreeing with a telepathic sky magician and his zombie son and talking snakes and rib women is a word that is known globally and mocked and distrusted more than any other minority.

Just my godless 2 cents.

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29-01-2013, 06:07 PM
RE: God - Ahh Ahhh - Creator of the Universe
Here's the thing, when you propose a magical creator that instigates a big bang through another magical process, you haven't answered any questions.

A 1957 Buick backfired and created the big bang

Someone can propose any unknown agent with an unknown process that causes something that we don't have enough information about.

For now we have to investigate and observe reality.
Creating a creator in our minds is the first step in making a fantasy world.

When you add things to the truth, you also subtract from the truth

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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29-01-2013, 06:26 PM
RE: God - Ahh Ahhh - Creator of the Universe
Creator?

Impossible - No
Improbable - Yes

If there is a creator, who or what created the creator?

Undecided

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30-01-2013, 06:14 AM (This post was last modified: 30-01-2013 06:21 AM by Chaos.)
RE: God - Ahh Ahhh - Creator of the Universe
I don't mind if there's a creative force in the universe, that might contain all the creation in itself, therefore a 'thing' that came into existing or existed before time(?), something that is way beyond our knowledge or imagination. For me, such thing can't be cognoscible, or it is just everything we see around us or everything beyond our sight. Or maybe it's just our perception.
It could be possible. But what's the point of thinking about it? Drinking Beverage

Maybe there's a puzzle waiting to be solved. Let it be so. Time might be the answer to all of these questions.

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
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30-01-2013, 06:37 AM
RE: God - Ahh Ahhh - Creator of the Universe
Hey.

For those that replied possible but not probable, isn't that pretty much the same as saying one doesn't believe?

For example, it's possible that there's life on Mercury, but not probable. But I don't believe that there is. It's certainly not a possibility that I entertain.

I think that's what I was curious about with my initial question. Are there Atheists here that entertain the possibility of a creator of the universe?

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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30-01-2013, 07:08 AM
RE: God - Ahh Ahhh - Creator of the Universe
(29-01-2013 05:33 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  The fact that the term "adeist" doesn't actually exist bothers me. Deism is much more vague and open to logic, and so adiesm would actually be slightly more worthy of mockery. It wouldn't be correct to mock them, but "some force somewhere out there that set it all in motion" is a bit harder to argue against, making adiesm a mockable stance. Meanwhile, the term for disagreeing with a telepathic sky magician and his zombie son and talking snakes and rib women is a word that is known globally and mocked and distrusted more than any other minority.

Just my godless 2 cents.
Sorry, but I can't seem to follow your logic. How would you define "adeism"?

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30-01-2013, 08:00 AM
RE: God - Ahh Ahhh - Creator of the Universe
(30-01-2013 06:37 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey.

For those that replied possible but not probable, isn't that pretty much the same as saying one doesn't believe?

For example, it's possible that there's life on Mercury, but not probable. But I don't believe that there is. It's certainly not a possibility that I entertain.

I think that's what I was curious about with my initial question. Are there Atheists here that entertain the possibility of a creator of the universe?

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt


It depends on what you mean by creation of the universe.

If we accept some version of Big Bang cosmology, then there might be a creator for this universe, the one in which we find ourselves. But from whence that creator?

If you mean all of reality including whatever might have caused or come before the Big Bang, then from whence the creator of reality?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-01-2013, 09:18 AM (This post was last modified: 30-01-2013 09:28 AM by DLJ.)
RE: God - Ahh Ahhh - Creator of the Universe
(30-01-2013 06:37 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey.

For those that replied possible but not probable, isn't that pretty much the same as saying one doesn't believe?

If pressed, I'm happy to admit this.

But I would be saying that I do not believe because there is insufficient evidence to convince me of the existence of a deity.

It is a 'possiblity' because I do not 'know' with 100% certainty. The deistic position cannot completely be dismissed in that it has not been disproven.

I have been using the term adeist (a-deist) for this for a long time.
Vosur correctly points out that adeist is not a word (and he should know because, as English is not his first language, his command of English is better than most native English speakers that I know).

Maybe I'll make a prediction on the recent new Predictions Thread that it will be a word eventually because it has entered into common parlance... just a matter of time, I think.


Meanwhile my atheistic (a-theist) position is based on my lack of belief in the existence of a living / interventionist / even slightly interested god (or gods) other than as a human construct / invention / mythology. Again, this is (lack of) evidence-based.
I make it clear, in discussions with theists, that I do not accept (forgive me repeating one of my favourites, here) Proof by Hot Air (FART - Faith, Authority, Revelation, Tradition).

I would go as far as saying that I think this kind of god is impossible given what I know about human development, how myths get created, the politically driven fallibility of ancient man (male)-made scriptures and the simple fact that all the myths cannot all be correct / true so in my maths, at any rate, the 'probability' of them all being fabrications = 1.

I'm boring myself now, so I'll stop.
I hope this clarifies at least one, if not all, atheist's position.

Cheers

(and give out some more 'likes' you tight bastard!)

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30-01-2013, 12:39 PM
RE: God - Ahh Ahhh - Creator of the Universe
Hey, Chas.

You're answering the question with a question. I just want to know if you entertain the possibility of a creator of the universe.

Hey, DLJ.

That was very honest of you. Thank you for that.

I mean, I don't know with 100% certainty whether or not I'm gonna die when my plane crashes into a shark's mouth, but I don't entertain the possibility.

But God? I entertain that possibility. There may very well be a God. But then again, maybe not. To me, and I'm special, they are both merely possibilities.

Ugh. I'm so sick of these fucking definition wars. It's so stupid. It's about ideology, power and dominance packaged as protecting the "Truth". Bleh.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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30-01-2013, 12:48 PM
RE: God - Ahh Ahhh - Creator of the Universe
(30-01-2013 12:39 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Chas.

You're answering the question with a question. I just want to know if you entertain the possibility of a creator of the universe.
Matt, I thought those were rather obviously rhetorical questions.

I no longer entertain the possibility of a Creator as it leads to regress.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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