God Does Not Exist (Need Insight)
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29-03-2013, 11:17 PM
God Does Not Exist (Need Insight)
Alright; I'm summoning the critique of my fellow atheists. I would like to propose an argument against the existence of God. I believe it is sound, but I'd like to get some peer-review to confirm. The argument unfolds thusly:

Science, by definition, is the study of that which exists.

Creationist X claims that God is "beyond the reach of scientific inquiry".

Therefore, by definition, the god described by Creationist X does not exist.


Is there any flaw, here? Is there a fallacy I'm missing? Or is it as sound as intense scrutiny on my part has lead me to believe it is?

Discuss.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
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29-03-2013, 11:25 PM
RE: God Does Not Exist (Need Insight)
I don't see a flaw. Am I having daja vu? hmm.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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29-03-2013, 11:26 PM
RE: God Does Not Exist (Need Insight)
(29-03-2013 11:25 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I don't see a flaw. Am I having daja vu? hmm.

I'm sure someone somewhere has said it before. And I'm reading 2 or 3 books at the moment about disproving the existence of God. I'm probably pulling it straight out of my subconscious. lol

Just figured I'd make sure.

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29-03-2013, 11:44 PM
RE: God Does Not Exist (Need Insight)
(29-03-2013 11:17 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  I believe it is sound, but I'd like to get some peer-review to confirm. The argument unfolds thusly:

Science, by definition, is the study of that which exists.

Creationist X claims that God is "beyond the reach of scientific inquiry".

Therefore, by definition, the god described by Creationist X does not exist.


Is there any flaw, here?

Yeah, it's flawed. It's not only unsound but invalid as well. Unsound because the argument's premises presume that science is the only method of studying existence. Invalid because there are no inference rules which admit a premise "beyond the reach of the first premise".

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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30-03-2013, 12:12 AM
RE: God Does Not Exist (Need Insight)
(29-03-2013 11:44 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(29-03-2013 11:17 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  I believe it is sound, but I'd like to get some peer-review to confirm. The argument unfolds thusly:

Science, by definition, is the study of that which exists.

Creationist X claims that God is "beyond the reach of scientific inquiry".

Therefore, by definition, the god described by Creationist X does not exist.


Is there any flaw, here?

Yeah, it's flawed. It's not only unsound but invalid as well. Unsound because the argument's premises presume that science is the only method of studying existence. Invalid because there are no inference rules which admit a premise "beyond the reach of the first premise".

Is that not ultimately the very definition of science itself?

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30-03-2013, 12:14 AM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2013 11:00 PM by Doctor X.)
RE: God Does Not Exist (Need Insight)
******

Those who administer and moderate in order to exercise personal agenda merely feed into the negative stereotype of Atheism
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30-03-2013, 12:18 AM
 
RE: God Does Not Exist (Need Insight)
You made a religious argument, not a logical one.

You make a assumption about Creationist X, as if Creationist X is the final word. Also, you say that science is the study of that which exists. It's not. It's a method of gaining information about things. There are other ways of gaining information about things. For instance, accepting the word of a trusted authority, experiencing a phenomenon, and psychic precognition or telepathy, or revelation in a dream, etc.
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30-03-2013, 12:21 AM
RE: God Does Not Exist (Need Insight)
(29-03-2013 11:17 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  Alright; I'm summoning the critique of my fellow atheists. I would like to propose an argument against the existence of God. I believe it is sound, but I'd like to get some peer-review to confirm. The argument unfolds thusly:

Science, by definition, is the study of that which exists.

Creationist X claims that God is "beyond the reach of scientific inquiry".

Therefore, by definition, the god described by Creationist X does not exist.


Is there any flaw, here? Is there a fallacy I'm missing? Or is it as sound as intense scrutiny on my part has lead me to believe it is?

Discuss..

Science studied aether and that did not exist...so your first premise is clearly wrong. Also your conclusion doesn't logically follow. Just because science can't study something doesn't mean it can't exist. Science can't study things smaller than the Planck length. According to string theory strings are smaller than a Planck length. Your argument suggest that since strings are beyond the reach of scientific inquiry, then they can't exist.

The same is true on the other end of the scale. Science can't study anything that it outside the observable universe...so according to your thinking nothing exists beyond the observable universe. Nobody believes that.
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30-03-2013, 12:21 AM
RE: God Does Not Exist (Need Insight)
(30-03-2013 12:18 AM)Egor Wrote:  You made a religious argument, not a logical one.

You make a assumption about Creationist X, as if Creationist X is the final word. Also, you say that science is the study of that which exists. It's not. It's a method of gaining information about things. There are other ways of gaining information about things. For instance, accepting the word of a trusted authority, experiencing a phenomenon, and psychic precognition or telepathy, or revelation in a dream, etc.

None of those things provide observable, testable, and REtestable data.

Move along, Egor.

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30-03-2013, 12:29 AM
RE: God Does Not Exist (Need Insight)
(30-03-2013 12:12 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  
(29-03-2013 11:44 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Unsound because the argument's premises presume that science is the only method of studying existence. ...

Is that not ultimately the very definition of science itself?

Nope, please allow me to introduce you to the very late, very great Prophet Hofmann. Science attempts to quantify and formulate existence. Other methods are more qualitative in nature. Tongue

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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