God Does Not Exist (Need Insight)
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30-03-2013, 12:31 AM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2013 10:59 PM by Doctor X.)
RE: God Does Not Exist (Need Insight)
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30-03-2013, 01:12 AM
RE: God Does Not Exist (Need Insight)
(30-03-2013 12:31 AM)Doctor X Wrote:  Besides, easier to simply recognize that while no evidence for gods exist, considerable evidence against existence does.

--J.D.

Think you must mean 'god' of the bible or other religions. If there is someone out there that did seed the universe, didn't require praise or worship and doesn't care what happened after that...then no, we don't know if that person or deity existed or exists today. Don't know if science could ever prove it though, one way or another.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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30-03-2013, 01:15 AM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2013 10:59 PM by Doctor X.)
RE: God Does Not Exist (Need Insight)
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30-03-2013, 01:36 AM
RE: God Does Not Exist (Need Insight)
Once you apply attributes to a thing you are setting up a testable hypothesis, which is falsifiable. If you make reference to that which exists outside corporeality, you can no longer apply attributes and thus, cannot describe a thing that exists.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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30-03-2013, 01:43 AM
RE: God Does Not Exist (Need Insight)
(30-03-2013 01:15 AM)Doctor X Wrote:  
(30-03-2013 01:12 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Think you must mean 'god' of the bible or other religions.

One has to define a god or else one keeps [Image: shiftgoalpost_zpsc5b1f1af.gif], yes.

Quote:If there is someone out there that did seed the universe, didn't require praise or worship and doesn't care what happened after that...

Then all evidence suggests he does not exist, no.

--J.D.

I see what you're saying. But if the original premise is flawed, like girlie suggested...then I see god can't be proven or disproven by science alone.

And I know I've had this conversation before.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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30-03-2013, 01:52 AM
RE: God Does Not Exist (Need Insight)
(29-03-2013 11:17 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  Science, by definition, is the study of that which exists.

I disagree with this being the definition of science. I checked several dictionaries and several online reference libraries and I don't see science defined like this anywhere.

Science in its simplest form is a systematic method for acquiring knowledge. The subject about which we acquire knowledge usually does exist, but this doesn't seem to be a requirement of science.

(29-03-2013 11:17 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  Creationist X claims that God is "beyond the reach of scientific inquiry".

Some creationists claim this, but not all. At best, god is NOW beyond our reach, but in the past (according to the bible) he appeared, spoke, even wrestled, with human beings. Maybe he'll do so again. If so, he'll certainly be within scientific reach.

(29-03-2013 11:17 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  Therefore, by definition, the god described by Creationist X does not exist.

Even with your presuppositions, it would be very easy to refute this based on the fact that there are many things currently beyond immediate scientific inquiry. For example, you cannot scientifically study Kim Jong Un. I doubt you could get close enough to speak to him, let alone study him, before his personal guards kill or detain you. Does that mean he doesn't exist? No, of course not, it's just that right now he is beyond YOUR reach of scientific inquiry. You cannot scientifically study Saturn because that is beyond your reach. Etc.

In other words, what you can study scientifically is limited by your access to it. You have no access to a great many things. God might just be one of those great many things to which you have no current access.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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30-03-2013, 05:19 AM
RE: God Does Not Exist (Need Insight)
I think the argument is best framed as:
Scepticism demands that we place the burden of proof on the person making a positive claim, and expect a weight of evidence in proportion to the distance between this claim and the "ordinary".
Theist X says that the required weight of evidence cannot be provided, and that instead God must be accepted on faith or personal revelation.
Therefore, this form of theism does not meet the burden of proof and can be dismissed without evidence.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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30-03-2013, 05:26 AM
RE: God Does Not Exist (Need Insight)
Thanks to Doc X, I know think all theists have an elephant in their rectum. Big Grin

1) If beings who exist can ponder non-existence, it seems to follow that existence is a subset of non-existence. All cultures that ponder god consider it a higher being. Therefore god does not exist.

2) God does not exist for existence limits god.

3) The job of the prophet is to speak for god. I say that god does not exist. God approves.

Yeah, I'm all gnostic in my atheism. Big Grin

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30-03-2013, 01:35 PM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2013 10:49 PM by Doctor X.)
RE: God Does Not Exist (Need Insight)
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30-03-2013, 03:49 PM
RE: God Does Not Exist (Need Insight)
(30-03-2013 01:35 PM)Doctor X Wrote:  
(30-03-2013 01:43 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  But if the original premise is flawed, . . .

You reject it as false.

If my premise is "all women have elephants in their [Right! Stop that!--Ed.] shoes . . . I was going to write "shoes" which is both false and faulty we dispense with the rest of my argument based upon it right there.

--J.D.

Yup, it's dismissed out of hand as not warranting any further consideration. Like the Supreme Court refusing to hear a case. Not technically the same as rejecting it as false per se, but practically so.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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