God Exists
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19-02-2012, 02:46 PM
 
God Exists
I believe God as defined below exists and exists necessarily. I'm willing to pull out all the stops if there is anyone out there willing to take on the debate and argue that this God is not necessary.

I would say, given the limits of human knowledge, I'd be willing to settle for just an agreement that such a being is more likely to exist than not. But if anyone is capable of shooting down my faith in God, I want to experience that. So, here it is:

God is the monistic entity of fundamental consciousness.

This being the case He existed prior to the universe, everything in the universe is made from His substance, and that substance is ultimately consciousness.

If you agree with me, please let me know. If you don't, please say why.
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19-02-2012, 02:53 PM
RE: God Exists
I don't agree with you.

The reason is because you are pulling this straight from your ass. As per usual, you make claims and assume they are true, then act as though your claims back up your claims. Rediculous.

Quote:God is the monistic entity of fundamental consciousness.

Prove it.

Quote:This being the case He existed prior to the universe

Prove it.

Quote:everything in the universe is made from His substance

Prove it.

Quote:and that substance is ultimately consciousness.

Prove it.

Hell, just show us some evidence to back up your claims.

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19-02-2012, 03:00 PM
 
RE: God Exists
No, see that's not a debate. That's just an ad hominem attack from a lazy agnostic skeptic. You can wait for the book, as far as I'm concerned. You don't challenge my beliefs at all. Which means, as far as I'm concerned, you have nothing; therefore, my explanation is better.

Nevertheless, I will use your post to further this a bit:

This being is necessarily eternal, and is the necessary cause of the universe. Furthermore, He is the sustainer of the existence of the universe.
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19-02-2012, 03:01 PM
RE: God Exists
(19-02-2012 02:46 PM)Egor Wrote:  I believe God as defined below exists and exists necessarily. I'm willing to pull out all the stops if there is anyone out there willing to take on the debate and argue that this God is not necessary.

I would say, given the limits of human knowledge, I'd be willing to settle for just an agreement that such a being is more likely to exist than not. But if anyone is capable of shooting down my faith in God, I want to experience that. So, here it is:

God is the monistic entity of fundamental consciousness.

This being the case He existed prior to the universe, everything in the universe is made from His substance, and that substance is ultimately consciousness.

If you agree with me, please let me know. If you don't, please say why.

So what you're saying is something like that the entire universe is alive and conscious of itself?

The existed prior to the universe I submit is outside the limit of human knowledge?
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19-02-2012, 03:04 PM
RE: God Exists
Sigh. I shoulda known better.

A debate would be you presenting evidence for your claim, then I would either refute your evidence, or provide alternate evidence pointing towards a different reality.

If you actually manage to start a debate, perhaps I will engage. Until then, I am shockingly comfortable with you feeling as though I am a "lazy agnostic skeptic." Weird huh?

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19-02-2012, 03:14 PM
RE: God Exists
(19-02-2012 03:00 PM)Egor Wrote:  That's just an ad hominem attack from a lazy agnostic skeptic. Yo

Actually, you're the only one in this thread that has presented an ad hominem attack.
You may want to brush up on your logic jargon before you start that book.

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19-02-2012, 03:17 PM (This post was last modified: 19-02-2012 03:42 PM by Observer.)
RE: God Exists
(19-02-2012 02:46 PM)Egor Wrote:  
God is the monistic entity of fundamental consciousness.

This being the case He existed prior to the universe, everything in the universe is made from His substance, and that substance is ultimately consciousness.
I don't believe you.
Here's my proof!
God is but a byproduct of time. Time was created as the eternal pink unicorn farted.

Don’t believe me? Who cares what you believe... Your not adding anything
Prove the opposite or you are just a lazy agnostic unwilling to debate...



Read about the burden of proof or be ready to accept any ridiculous claim I make here as the truth.



YOU claim something! YOU prove it. Don't like that statement? Fine with me and get in line behind al those people claiming they can trace ghosts/see aliens/talk to the death 'cause your logic: as long as you don’t prove me anything, all my claims are true.

I know it is frustrating you that you can't prove your deity. But it doesn’t help you trying to shift that proof. It only adds to the case that your god is but an empty box.
Try again.

edit: Typos

Observer

Agnostic atheist
Secular humanist
Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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19-02-2012, 03:18 PM
RE: God Exists
The problem I have with this whole thing is it's kind of one massive assumption.

It's a lot more defensible a position than that the bible is literally true or even partially metaphorical, but still...

What I mean by the statement that it is an assumption is that I can't really see any way of testing the claim. How do I tell if a rock or an atom is conscious? On the other hand it's a lot more believable a claim than that the Christian God exists, purely because there's no baggage attached (at the moment) about what this supreme consciousness likes or does not like and how it acts and has acted in the past and what it is capable of.

I still would like to see evidence before I believed though. Because this is a weak concept of God (meaning not that God is weak, but that the assumptions you are making a much lighter than the assumptions a full on Young Earth Creationist has to make), because of this finding evidence will be harder.

For example, if God would consent to talk to me, as one human to another, which the Christian God is capable of, I'd be more inclined to believe in that God. Maybe not convinced - maybe it would just be Egor playing a trick on me - but I'd do a bit of background checking and if it seemed reasonable I would then believe in the Christian God.

But with this weak concept of God I don't even have the postulate that he talks. I don't have any idea how you would give me evidence that this God existed which I would take as a reason to change my current position which is that this God does not exist.

I apologise that this got rather wordy. Also I am unsatisfied with my explanations - I think I have not got my point across - but I'm interested to think about this.
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19-02-2012, 03:18 PM
RE: God Exists
(19-02-2012 02:46 PM)Egor Wrote:  
God is the monistic entity of fundamental consciousness.

What the hell is that supposed to mean?
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19-02-2012, 03:26 PM
RE: God Exists
(19-02-2012 03:18 PM)Ben Wrote:  
(19-02-2012 02:46 PM)Egor Wrote:  
God is the monistic entity of fundamental consciousness.

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

By monistic he means that everything in the universe is made of God.

He seems basically to be saying that God is the universe and the universe is conscious.
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