God Exists: An Open Debate
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17-10-2012, 07:12 PM
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
(17-10-2012 06:27 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Egor - you might as well assert there is consciousness in Oreo cookies..

They are so tasty, they must contain gods.

You must admit this makes just as much sense as your assertion.

Oreo cookies? It's chocolate truffles.

I worship chocolate truffles. They are deliciously divine!

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17-10-2012, 07:30 PM (This post was last modified: 17-10-2012 07:46 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
(17-10-2012 11:22 AM)Egor Wrote:  Do you agree with me? If not, why not? Consider

I disagree and I'll address the points below.

Quote:1. There is a consciousness underlying the physical attributes of the universe. This consciousness must have always existed (eternally) and must still exist. This fundamental monistic consciousness I call "God."


Well a simplistic argument would be that all laws governing the universe would be subject to change. Things in dreams would happen in reality. Impossible things would be commonplace.

Quote:2. I make no religious statement about God whatsoever. The only positive statement I make about God is what I stated in #1 above. For the record, I am personally nonreligious.

Yay! I cannot express how happy I am to read that.

Quote:3. Atheism is the belief that there is no God (as god is described in #1 above) based on a lack of evidence for said God.

Yes. Gnostic atheism is that

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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17-10-2012, 07:48 PM (This post was last modified: 17-10-2012 08:46 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate



Member of the Cult of Reason

The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
Bitcion:1DNeQMswMdvx4xLPP6qNE7RkeTwXGC7Bzp
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17-10-2012, 09:04 PM
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
I would like to address the crazy assertion question part which basically says "if you don't agree with me, why not ?"

You haven't given me anything to agree with.
You've made a wishful thinking assertion that isn't based on any evidence.

Buildings are made of chocolate pudding.
If you don't agree with me, why not ?

In science you present your data, your evidence, then it can be reviewed, retested, verified, endlessly scutinized. Then people can discuss the validity of the results and if it supports the conclusion you've come to.

So far, your non religious universal consciousness is sitting on the same shelf as the tooth fairy.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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17-10-2012, 09:10 PM
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
yet another egor thing. I'm sorry, but this thing if which you speak, what is it?

When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.

You cannot successfully determine beforehand which side of the bread to butter.
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17-10-2012, 09:28 PM
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
(17-10-2012 09:04 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  I would like to address the crazy assertion question part which basically says "if you don't agree with me, why not ?"

You haven't given me anything to agree with.
You've made a wishful thinking assertion that isn't based on any evidence.

Buildings are made of chocolate pudding.
If you don't agree with me, why not ?

In science you present your data, your evidence, then it can be reviewed, retested, verified, endlessly scutinized. Then people can discuss the validity of the results and if it supports the conclusion you've come to.

So far, your non religious universal consciousness is sitting on the same shelf as the tooth fairy.

If I agree with you, does it make it so? I could go for a tasty brick right about now.

Back to Egor: As others said before, the 1st statement is pretty much a baseless assertion. Point 3 is why people don't take the 1st point with any legitimacy. There is no evidence to it and why would it be better to believe it without evidence?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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18-10-2012, 01:51 AM
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
(17-10-2012 11:22 AM)Egor Wrote:  I believe it is more rational to believe in the existence of God than to deny God exists. Drinking Beverage

1. There is a consciousness underlying the physical attributes of the universe. This consciousness must have always existed (eternally) and must still exist. This fundamental monistic consciousness I call "God."

2. I make no religious statement about God whatsoever. The only positive statement I make about God is what I stated in #1 above. For the record, I am personally nonreligious.

3. Atheism is the belief that there is no God (as god is described in #1 above) based on a lack of evidence for said God.

Do you agree with me? If not, why not? Consider

Great. But your belief does not make it so.

1) There is no consciousness for the inanimate universe, and until you provide evidence for said concept, I will disbelieve you.

2) You don't have to make a religious statement to be wrong. I don't care if you are religiously delusional or individually delusional.

3) I am glad you understand the concept of gnostic atheism.

Because you are no different from the Christian schmuck who believes in his Christian God. No evidence, no belief. Thanks. Drinking Beverage

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18-10-2012, 04:40 AM
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
I can only believe in my own consciousness up to now. I have wrote before about "that" meditation where I experienced infinity for a few brief/eternal seconds. To me this indicates that...

A: I had somehow done something that had momentarily changed my awareness of "reality" that I experience every single day. Something that could be explained quite simply in neuro-science.

B: I had somehow connected into something else..... maybe this unexplainable underlying consciousness.

I wish I could somehow share this experience with other people as it felt more "real" than reality itself.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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18-10-2012, 05:31 AM
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
People go, "do you believe in god?"
and I go, "fuck no," even though I met the guy. This is because people are not asking about god, they're asking for conformation of their god. God exists in the sense that we all have a concept labelled god, but there is no physical entity, as such.

Egor's take of fundamental monistic consciousness deals from the same deck. By saying god is consciousness and the implication that his readers are self-aware, the deck is stacked in favor of god's existence.

Yet many of us here accept the hypothesis that consciousness is merely an emergent property of the brain; not Creator, but created.

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18-10-2012, 06:05 AM
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
Is this the "atheism is a religion"Edition Number 1000000?
You really don't get it, right?

Physics is mathematic in the first place.
So, lets do a simple calculation: 1+1=2
I try to find the underlaying consciousness in this, but there is non.
Even if you have a formula with an x for unknown, you will always be able to find x by following the rules of Arithmetic and Algebra.
The magic thing is, that x is different all the time.
There is no Fit-to-all-problems-solution, called god, that pops out in the existens.

All this "must" in your text is an attempt to create a logical chain to bind terms and facts together, although they really do not belong together.
The laws of physics have no underlaying consciousness, they all have a counterpart to equal each other out to zero.
All forces in the universe are equal to zero, so the system itselfe is stabil.
This is science and you may have to read Lawrence Krauss book "A Universe from Nothing, Free Press, Simon & Schuster Inc. Januar 2012, ISBN 978-1-4516-2445-8"
to understand what Physics realy mean.

If atheism is a religion, then not playing football is an Olympic discipline.
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