God Exists: An Open Debate
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
18-10-2012, 11:39 AM
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
(18-10-2012 11:35 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  He's a busy guy. He has his career to deal with. Seriously. He is a psych RN, he probably is in management of THAT nut house, (and if not, and actually really dealing with those VERY difficult patients...man I could not do that for more than an hour, I would jump off the bridge MYSELF), then he comes here and has THIS nut house. And if you haven't seen his recent web site, he's turned what was once a quirky "thing", into a serious literary endeavor. I used to think he was a nut case. No longer. He's a bright guy. He wants our input. He respects us. He uses us to bounce stuff off. He's impatient with stupidity .. very much like many of us. He does not "suffer fools" well. I have grown to like him.

Hammer, meet nail.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-10-2012, 11:39 AM
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
(18-10-2012 11:35 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  He's a busy guy. He has his career to deal with. Seriously. He is a psych RN, he probably is in management of THAT nut house, (and if not, and actually really dealing with those VERY difficult patients...man I could not do that for more than an hour, I would jump off the bridge MYSELF), then he comes here and has THIS nut house. And if you haven't seen his recent web site, he's turned what was once a quirky "thing", into a serious literary endeavor. I used to think he was a nut case. No longer. He's a bright guy. He wants our input. He respects us. He uses us to bounce stuff off. He's impatient with stupidity .. very much like many of us. He does not "suffer fools" well. I have grown to like him.

Thanks for the perspective. Also, I'm spending a little too much time in here lately anyway. You guys are beginning to grow on me. But, I'm doing most of my posting when I should be working.

Restraint, I has it.

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Cardinal Smurf's post
18-10-2012, 11:53 AM
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
(18-10-2012 11:39 AM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  
(18-10-2012 11:35 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  He's a busy guy. He has his career to deal with. Seriously. He is a psych RN, he probably is in management of THAT nut house, (and if not, and actually really dealing with those VERY difficult patients...man I could not do that for more than an hour, I would jump off the bridge MYSELF), then he comes here and has THIS nut house. And if you haven't seen his recent web site, he's turned what was once a quirky "thing", into a serious literary endeavor. I used to think he was a nut case. No longer. He's a bright guy. He wants our input. He respects us. He uses us to bounce stuff off. He's impatient with stupidity .. very much like many of us. He does not "suffer fools" well. I have grown to like him.

Thanks for the perspective. Also, I'm spending a little too much time in here lately anyway. You guys are beginning to grow on me. But, I'm doing most of my posting when I should be working.

Restraint, I has it.

Just out of curiosity, how is it you've been here for over a year, but you're just now becoming more active?

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Erxomai's post
18-10-2012, 11:59 AM
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
Holy shit. I just repped CS and didn't even realize he joined in 2011!

Glad you found your voice here Cardinal.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Stark Raving's post
18-10-2012, 12:05 PM
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
(18-10-2012 11:53 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(18-10-2012 11:39 AM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Thanks for the perspective. Also, I'm spending a little too much time in here lately anyway. You guys are beginning to grow on me. But, I'm doing most of my posting when I should be working.

Restraint, I has it.

Just out of curiosity, how is it you've been here for over a year, but you're just now becoming more active?

Good question. At first I joined so I could learn more (did!) about my growing unbelief. At the time I was deep into Hitchens, Dawkins et al. It was a major focus in my life because it was still new. Since then I guess my life has gotten complicated and I've become much more comfortable in my new unbelief. Recently I returned out of curiosity. You guys make this place interesting and fun. I'm enjoying contributing to it.

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Cardinal Smurf's post
18-10-2012, 12:05 PM
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
(18-10-2012 11:59 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Holy shit. I just repped CS and didn't even realize he joined in 2011!

Glad you found your voice here Cardinal.

Thank you! Smile

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-10-2012, 11:29 PM
 
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
Hey everyone. I posted the original post 37 hours ago, and I am just now getting back. There are 45 replies and 600+ views. I appreciate everyone taking the time to reply, but I can't address most of what's already been posted. I apologize. It would take hours and hours to do that.

Having said that, if there's a point you really want to debate with me, and I seem to have passed you up, just repost it. Whatever you do, if you were expecting a reply and didn't get it, don't take it personal.

So, now, I will start to look through. God, I hope most are insulting so I can ignore them. Sadcryface
Quote this message in a reply
18-10-2012, 11:33 PM
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
(18-10-2012 11:29 PM)Egor Wrote:  Hey everyone. I posted the original post 37 hours ago, and I am just now getting back. There are 45 replies and 600+ views. I appreciate everyone taking the time to reply, but I can't address most of what's already been posted. I apologize. It would take hours and hours to do that.

Having said that, if there's a point you really want to debate with me, and I seem to have passed you up, just repost it. Whatever you do, if you were expecting a reply and didn't get it, don't take it personal.

So, now, I will start to look through. God, I hope most are insulting so I can ignore them. Sadcryface

If you think there is a God, then PROVE it.

If you can't show it, then you don't know it!

Deal.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Julius's post
18-10-2012, 11:36 PM
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
(18-10-2012 11:29 PM)Egor Wrote:  So, now, I will start to look through. God, I hope most are insulting so I can ignore them. Sadcryface
I'm afraid to tell you that this is (mostly) not the case this time.

Several people, including me, want you to elaborate on your first point before we start debating about it.

That being said, take your time, Egor. You ain't the youngest man around after all. Wink

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-10-2012, 12:16 AM
 
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
(17-10-2012 11:30 AM)robotworld Wrote:  Hmm... I can't lay down my agreement or disagreement yet. Can you elaborate further on your first statement?

Well, before the universe existed, before the singularity expanded, before there was a singularity, there had to be the substance of all things that would be. This is indisputable.

That substance had to also be conscious in order to order the universe as it is. There is simply no way the universe could be an accident. There is no rational way to believe that.

The only thing that seems similar to this primordial consciousness is what we find in dreams. That is, in a dream you feel the ground, you eat, drink, fuck, whatever—all these things and people are real in the context of that dream world, but in reality, they all derive from the substance of your mind, your consciousness, even your own dream body.

So it seems likely the universe is the same way. There was a time when it didn’t exist. The only thing capable of making it exist is consciousness.

(17-10-2012 11:31 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  Can you elaborate on this? I think some clarification on your observations used to draw this conclusion will give us a good starting point for debate. For starters, a description of consciousness would be helpful. Is that a deliberate force or action influencing the universe?

I don’t think I can describe consciousness. It possesses awareness and will, but those are only attributes. When it comes to consciousness, mind you (and I use the pun deliberately) there can only be one. There cannot be many different consciousnesses. There can be many minds that are modalities of it, but there can only be one real consciousness. That’s because consciousness had to be the primordial substance. That said; it is the only real thing that exists. And that being said, if it is the only real thing that exists, there is no way to classify it; there is nothing to compare it to. It is; and that’s about all we can say.

Quote:I know you have some personal experiences that some may or may not accept as evidence, but it's your statement, so I think it's fair you include them if they're relevant to your point.

Thank you.

Yes, I have had dramatic experiences of precognition. I will post them below this comment. I have done a great deal of research on protozoa, namely paramecium, and they display an obvious will (something only possible via a mind that is conscious) and yet, they have no nervous system whatsoever—nothing that can account for that behavior. In addition they also demonstrate the ability to learn and remember. I will post the most recent scientific papers on that; however, that research has been well established since the 1950’s. Memory and learning is only possible via a mind that is conscious. In the case of protozoa, that conscious mind must be external to the organism. In the case of precognition, that knowledge could only be contained in the consciousness of a primordial fundamental consciousness external to my mind.

Links to scientific research on learning in paramecia:

http://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/cgi/viewcont...ontext=tpr

Why is the paramecium trying to get away? It has no CNS of any kind whatsoever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ7wv2Lh...re=related

Where are these paramecium going? Why should they change direction at all? They supposedly have no mind, so why back up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9pCcfGiaB0

My experiences with precognition:

On the thirteenth of March in 1996, I awoke from a dream. In that dream, I had visited a kindergarten schoolroom with several small children and a woman who was their teacher. I realized that the school was also part of a church; in fact it was supposed to be the rectory of a church. The children and the teacher in the class all gathered around me and seemed very happy to have me visiting them. At some point I said I had to leave, and one child grabbed hold of my leg and begged me to take him with me, but I told him I couldn’t and that I was very sorry. As I was driving away, I looked in my rearview mirror and I noticed a water tower with the name of a town on it, and the name of the town was Sterling.

When I woke up, I remembered the dream clearly, even as I do today, and I didn’t think much of it, especially given that I had lived as a teenager in the town of Sterling, Colorado. I was all set to ignore it until I saw on the news that a massacre of sixteen small kindergarten-age children and their teacher had occurred in the town of Dunblane, Scotland. Dunblane is a town in the council area of Stirling, Scotland, just down the road from the city of Stirling, itself. It is best known for its cathedral church.

When all of this hit me, I cried. However, I must shamefully admit that I didn’t cry for the children; I cried because I was afraid I was losing my mind and couldn’t determine what was real and what was a dream. I told my wife about the dream, and she was amazed as well.

-------

As a nurse, I work the nightshift (7pm-7am), always have, probably always will so long as I am working as a nurse, but on this particular day in 2006, it was my night off. We were staying in an RV park in Tucson, Arizona while I did a three-month contract nursing job. I was asleep in bed, and I woke up around 3 P.M. While I slept, I had a dream about a green parrot. I didn’t remember the dream that well, but I remember a bright green parrot that I was taking care of for some reason. When I woke up, I didn’t think anything of it. Though I had never seen it, my grandparents owned a green parrot for a long time until it died sometime before I was born. I figured that was the connection.

Eventually, my wife and I ate, jogged, and got cleaned up. Then we got ready to walk our two dachshunds around the RV park as we always did at that time. We were taking our usual route, but up the street we saw someone else walking their dog. So as to avoid any canine conflicts, we decided to take a side street that we hadn't taken before. We’re walking up it, and just by chance, I looked up into the window of a Class A RV. In the window was a live green parrot looking down at me. I told my wife about the dream, and again, I felt as if this were not a possible real occurrence.

-----------

During that same year, on a contract in Phoenix, Arizona, I had another dream. I dreamt I was watching ultralight airplanes flying around. Ultralights are airplanes meant for one person and they are often a simple motorized version of hang gliders. At any rate, I got up and got ready for work. I took my motorcycle, and when I got to the top of this one hill overlooking a valley I saw three ultralight aircraft flying around. I had never seen ultralights in this area, nor did I ever see them again after that day while I remained in Phoenix.

-----------

As some of you may know if you’ve been to my Facebook page (which I invite you to friend me), my wife went into the hospital on Tuesday, July 10, 2012. She ended up having a bowel resection related to a twisted colon. The night before, she was fine. We ran, we barbequed, had some beers, and went to bed as normal. In the morning she was in agony in her abdomen. We thought maybe it was trapped gas, but it didn’t go away; so to the ER we went; she was admitted for emergency surgery from there.The good news is she’s doing fine.

She's fully recovered now and going for her black belt in taekwondo.

What’s interesting is that surrounding this incident, I had the fourth major precognition of my life. That night, I dreamt that there was some men trying to get into our house, and they were dangerous. I told my wife to go and get the shotgun, and she did and I started firing through the door that had begun to bulge inward towards us. During the shooting, I accidently shot my wife. The wound went in through her back and out through her lower right abdomen. The exit wound was red and meaty, but she wasn’t bleeding. The next thing I knew she had a dressing on the wound, and she was alright.

I woke up from that dream to hear her moaning in pain. As I said we went to the ER. I told her about the dream on the way to the ER, and I predicted she would have to have surgery as a result of the symbolism in the dream. We have been married during the time of the other precognitions, so it’s something we both know about and talked about. Ultimately, she had to have emergency surgery, and before they took her in, her abdomen was bulging in the lower right quadrant, exactly where the wound was in the dream, exactly where the twist was. You can call this a coincidence, but it is the fourth major episode in my life of precognition. There have been dozens of minor episodes.

(17-10-2012 12:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  BTW folks. Ed, (Egor), I have come to see, values our input, greatly. He comes off "snarky" sometimes, but these are "clarification dialogues" for himself. He's not here to convert us. He may say something, but he WANTS us to rationally, carefully, shoot things down, (or not), in order to think about things for himself. He's a good guy, and I presume good-faith here. He's been badly behaved in the past, sometimes, but so have I.

Thank you Bucky Ball. And you said it right. I do value the opinions of members on this board and I have 0 desire to convert anyone to anything. Because of this forum, I have gone from fairly Christian fundamentalist to absolutely nonreligious, and in fact, I have come to truly detest religious thinking. I suppose some of that stems from my own self-shame at having been religious for so long. I now, because of this forum, consider myself a humanist, and that’s it.

I ascribe to acosmic monism, but that is not a religion; it’s a philosophy. I do give a lot of shit, but I take a lot of shit, and I’m good with that—so long as everyone else is. Beat_stick
Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Egor's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: