God Exists: An Open Debate
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19-10-2012, 12:29 AM
 
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
(18-10-2012 04:40 AM)bemore Wrote:  I can only believe in my own consciousness up to now. I have wrote before about "that" meditation where I experienced infinity for a few brief/eternal seconds. To me this indicates that...

Where I live is an excellent place to ride motorcycles. My wife and I (she has her own bike) were crusing over a bridge across Lake Pontchartrain yesterday, and I began to sense that I was one with all things.

I now know that I want that more than anything the Bible has to offer.

Maybe when I die. Who knows? Rolleyes

Quote:A: I had somehow done something that had momentarily changed my awareness of "reality" that I experience every single day. Something that could be explained quite simply in neuro-science.

B: I had somehow connected into something else..... maybe this unexplainable underlying consciousness.

I wish I could somehow share this experience with other people as it felt more "real" than reality itself.

I think I know exactly what you mean. Combine that with a the feeling of an opiate euphoria, and you have heaven pure and simple. Seriously. The only problem is opium + 70 mph via motorcycle = Shocking

But imagine being conscious with absolutely no pain or worries or stress or discomfort and feeling that incredible infinite oneness. There is no religion for that.

To quote Linkin Park: "String me up from atop these rooms; knot it tight so I won't get lose." Yes
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19-10-2012, 12:45 AM
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
Acosmic monism isn't atheistic per se, but I'd argue we probably agree more than disagree.

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19-10-2012, 12:53 AM
 
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
(18-10-2012 10:52 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Lets keep in mind that the OP has been inundated with replies. Lets also keep in mind that Egor can't be expected to spend a whole lot of time on the forum just because we want answers to our questions.

Instead, why not stop reposting arguments that others have already made, and try to practice patience while we wait for Egor to reply. Because really, all we are doing at this point is muddling up the thread and preventing Egor from having the opportunity to look at each argument, and give it the merit it deserves.

Thank you, Stark, very much for that consideration. I really appreciate it. But being an atheist with no moral foundation, how do you do it? JUST KIDDING Big GrinBowing

(18-10-2012 11:35 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  He's a busy guy. He has his career to deal with. Seriously. He is a psych RN, he probably is in management of THAT nut house, (and if not, and actually really dealing with those VERY difficult patients...man I could not do that for more than an hour, I would jump off the bridge MYSELF), then he comes here and has THIS nut house.

Thank you, Bucky. Truth is though, If I was at work and the patients were in bed, I'd actually have more time for the forum. It's when I'm off work and working as a writer that I have no time. I work three days on and have four off.

As for the nut jobs in here, I will say this: There are a couple I think are probably unbalanced, but atheists tend to be more mentally adjusted folks in my observation than religious people. And in this forum, I find the highest level of thinkers and philosophers of anywhere. And I'm not just blowing smoke. I've changed since joining this forum. In the last year, when I was 47, three major influences changed my way of thinking from ultra-Jesus-freak to simply humanist: Reading "The Shack," which was one of the sickest testimonies to Christianity I've ever come accross, outside of a Catholic Bath House for Boys; The documentary "Religulous," and the conversations in The Thinking Atheist Forum.

So, thanks for all the consideration and patience.


Quote:And if you haven't seen his recent web site, he's turned what was once a quirky "thing", into a serious literary endeavor. I used to think he was a nut case. No longer. He's a bright guy. He wants our input. He respects us. He uses us to bounce stuff off. He's impatient with stupidity .. very much like many of us. He does not "suffer fools" well. I have grown to like him.

Thank you, again. And I have to say, I never thought I would have atheists as friends, but I count you and many others in here as good of friends as I have ever had. Weeping

Speaking of the website on blovels, by the way, I just posted a YouTube video explaining them. it's about 6 1/2 minutes long. I was going to mention it in the literary forum here, but I think everyone who talks to me is in this string, so here's the vid.



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19-10-2012, 12:54 AM
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
(17-10-2012 11:22 AM)Egor Wrote:  I believe it is more rational to believe in the existence of God than to deny God exists. Drinking Beverage

1. There is a consciousness underlying the physical attributes of the universe. This consciousness must have always existed (eternally) and must still exist. This fundamental monistic consciousness I call "God."

2. I make no religious statement about God whatsoever. The only positive statement I make about God is what I stated in #1 above. For the record, I am personally nonreligious.

3. Atheism is the belief that there is no God (as god is described in #1 above) based on a lack of evidence for said God.

Do you agree with me? If not, why not? Consider

Ok, second shot, your whish is my command.
Your assumption that "reason's" lead to a belief in god is ridiculous, sorry for being rude her.
As fare as i know, you need faith to belief in a god, if you try to use reason and logic to do so, you will land on the tip of your nose. Or maybe end up as an atheist.

1. As i wrote before, physics is a matter of mathmatics.
As long as 1+1 equals 2 there is no place inbetween for a underlying consciousness.
Every Physical law has a counterpart to it, so they equal each other to zero.
Read A Universe from Nothing von Lawrence Krauss, it helps to understand the matter.
2. Hm, what could that mean? You beliefe in a god, but you don't want to join his Fanclub? You have to elaborate this point, please.
3. The best-selling long-playing disc rotates still on your plate and has a large scratch on it. I don't want to go into this anymore. It makes no sence.

So, as you can see and read, i disagree with you in most of your assumptions.
Feel free to answer or not, i didn't take it personally, because i am in her to have fun and intelligent conversation.
If i want to get angry, i'll chat with my daughter!

If atheism is a religion, then not playing football is an Olympic discipline.
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19-10-2012, 01:09 AM
 
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
(18-10-2012 11:33 PM)Julius Wrote:  If you think there is a God, then PROVE it.

If you can't show it, then you don't know it!

Deal.

Forget the argument here for a minute. Seriously, think about the notion of God--even if He doesn't exist, just the notion of what God would have to be like, what his necessary attributes would have to be, and then think about how silly it is to expect someone to point at something and "show" you God.

And from my point of view, acosmism, I could point at my video camera and say, "See, God." The problem would not be my lack of proof to you. The problem would be your lack of ability to comprehend the proof when you see it.

We can see the effects of God's will in the design of nature; we can't see God.

Furthermore, you have some serious problems if you are waiting for someone to take you into a room where you can meet God, shake his hand, have a cup of tea. The only way that's going to happen is in a dream, a psychotic break, or if someone is conning you out of your money.

Deal? Sure. But you're going to have to get real first. Angry

(18-10-2012 11:36 PM)Vosur Wrote:  That being said, take your time, Egor. You ain't the youngest man around after all. Wink

Gall damn you little bastard kids runnin around shoutin at me. Get over here...get...over...I swear if you come in reach of this gall damn cane, I'll...Censored

wheeze, wheeze...I woulda jump round kicked the little bastard, but I broke muh damn hip last year and...Hobo

But it's true. I've reached that point in my life where I have to settle for looking at 23-year-old women Sadcryface
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19-10-2012, 01:11 AM
 
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
(19-10-2012 12:45 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  Acosmic monism isn't atheistic per se, but I'd argue we probably agree more than disagree.

Yes. For the religious, acosmism has the same results as atheism, so to atheists I'm a theist, but to Christians, I'm the same as an atheist. Go figure. Blink
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19-10-2012, 01:14 AM
 
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
(19-10-2012 12:54 AM)Marco Krieger Wrote:  Ok, second shot, your whish is my command.
Your assumption that "reason's" lead to a belief in god is ridiculous, sorry for being rude her.
As fare as i know, you need faith to belief in a god, if you try to use reason and logic to do so, you will land on the tip of your nose. Or maybe end up as an atheist.

1. As i wrote before, physics is a matter of mathmatics.
As long as 1+1 equals 2 there is no place inbetween for a underlying consciousness.
Every Physical law has a counterpart to it, so they equal each other to zero.
Read A Universe from Nothing von Lawrence Krauss, it helps to understand the matter.
2. Hm, what could that mean? You beliefe in a god, but you don't want to join his Fanclub? You have to elaborate this point, please.
3. The best-selling long-playing disc rotates still on your plate and has a large scratch on it. I don't want to go into this anymore. It makes no sence.

So, as you can see and read, i disagree with you in most of your assumptions.
Feel free to answer or not, i didn't take it personally, because i am in her to have fun and intelligent conversation.
If i want to get angry, i'll chat with my daughter!

I have nothing to comment on. First off, I don't understand what you're trying to say. Second, I think you're just making a statement that you disagree. Third, you think I'm ridiculous, so why the hell would you want a reply? Fourth, if you're going to be rude, just be rude. Apologizing for being rude when you can easily delete what you wrote is about as creepy as God sending us to hell for following the devil he created and threw down here with us. Consider
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19-10-2012, 01:32 AM
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
(19-10-2012 01:11 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(19-10-2012 12:45 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  Acosmic monism isn't atheistic per se, but I'd argue we probably agree more than disagree.

Yes. For the religious, acosmism has the same results as atheism, so to atheists I'm a theist, but to Christians, I'm the same as an atheist. Go figure. Blink

Perhaps if we do agree that what we perceive as life has patterns and laws, then most of our conclusions should match up quite nicely.

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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19-10-2012, 01:34 AM
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
(19-10-2012 12:16 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(17-10-2012 11:30 AM)robotworld Wrote:  Hmm... I can't lay down my agreement or disagreement yet. Can you elaborate further on your first statement?

Well, before the universe existed, before the singularity expanded, before there was a singularity, there had to be the substance of all things that would be. This is indisputable.

That substance had to also be conscious in order to order the universe as it is. There is simply no way the universe could be an accident. There is no rational way to believe that.

The only thing that seems similar to this primordial consciousness is what we find in dreams. That is, in a dream you feel the ground, you eat, drink, fuck, whatever—all these things and people are real in the context of that dream world, but in reality, they all derive from the substance of your mind, your consciousness, even your own dream body.

So it seems likely the universe is the same way. There was a time when it didn’t exist. The only thing capable of making it exist is consciousness.
Sound a lot like deism to me. Consider
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19-10-2012, 01:35 AM
RE: God Exists: An Open Debate
(19-10-2012 01:14 AM)Egor Wrote:  I have nothing to comment on. First off, I don't understand what you're trying to say. Second, I think you're just making a statement that you disagree. Third, you think I'm ridiculous, so why the hell would you want a reply? Fourth, if you're going to be rude, just be rude. Apologizing for being rude when you can easily delete what you wrote is about as creepy as God sending us to hell for following the devil he created and threw down here with us. Consider

You don't understand what i am trying to say?
I try to say, your assumption is not logical and your attempt to use reason to justify a beliefe in a god is ridiculous. Reason and logic lead's away from a beliefe in a god. That is my antithesis.
I don't say, you are ridiculous, i say your argument is ridiculous. Thats the reason why i wrote " sorry for being rude her".
Is this clear enough?

If atheism is a religion, then not playing football is an Olympic discipline.
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