God Exists
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20-02-2012, 11:54 AM
RE: God Exists
I abuse this video a lot, but it appears that you refuse to hear anything we atheists are saying. We link the term burden of proof for a reason; because we want you to actually click on it, not just because it looks pretty in blue.

And your claim that "you have to declare an absolute certainty for something before you can discuss it" is just pure nonsense. Even children know better than that. Just watch the damn video.






"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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20-02-2012, 12:00 PM
 
RE: God Exists
(19-02-2012 02:46 PM)Egor Wrote:  I would say, given the limits of human knowledge

Ego,
I think you just debated yourself and gave yourself all the proof you need. Do you not even hear your own thoughts? Wow!

There is MUCH we simply don't know, but WILL eventually know.

Your type of god math gave us Alchemy, Flat earth and Earth being the center of the universe (among other things).

This type of mentality (as for all the ages of Christendom) has been in such a GOD damn hurry (did i capitalize that correctly for you?) for answers. So much so that when this POV runs into a dead end of understanding...they plug in God (take your pick from a list of 1000's).

Before trying to debate the Atheists on this stuff, you should listen to yourself...you are answering your own questions! Its OK to have questions for which there are no current answers. Don't be afraid of the unknown.

Everyone on this forum runs the risk of 'arguing with an idiot' as you have openly stated that normal Dogma is not right for you due to it being flawed (or what ever reason you have this week) so you created your own brand of merchandising and the rules are yours to change at will. Congrats! You have joined the ranks of L Ron Hubbard and Joseph Smith. Sad thing is you'll probably make a shit load of $$ with your new invention.

God is real because you say ITS real. It has no physical or natural proof. Thats why YOU have to have faith. Its a very simple concept to understand. You are complicating it by trying to add philosophical or theological arguments in the mix.

You got proof of ANYTHING you blather about? If not, then all you have is FAITH..and the rest is simply hot air. We will ALL be waiting eagerly for your absolute physical proof..............
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20-02-2012, 12:07 PM
RE: God Exists
(20-02-2012 02:06 AM)Egor Wrote:  I was driving into work today and it was raining. And I realized that God was conscious of every raindrop. In fact, he's conscious of every molecule of air, and every star in the universe, at all times.

I think I see the problem here.
It's linguistic.

It's the confusion of the word "god" for the word "nature" and the word "conscious" with the word "present".

Simple mistake to make.
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20-02-2012, 12:17 PM
RE: God Exists
(20-02-2012 12:07 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(20-02-2012 02:06 AM)Egor Wrote:  I was driving into work today and it was raining. And I realized that God was conscious of every raindrop. In fact, he's conscious of every molecule of air, and every star in the universe, at all times.

I think I see the problem here.
It's linguistic.

It's the confusion of the word "god" for the word "nature" and the word "conscious" with the word "present".

Simple mistake to make.

Hence, if you worship Gwynnies, you won't have this problem.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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20-02-2012, 12:17 PM
RE: God Exists
(20-02-2012 11:54 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  I abuse this video a lot, but it appears that you refuse to hear anything we atheists are saying. We link the term burden of proof for a reason; because we want you to actually click on it, not just because it looks pretty in blue.

And your claim that "you have to declare an absolute certainty for something before you can discuss it" is just pure nonsense. Even children know better than that. Just watch the damn video.






Buddy Christ.. I'm stealing your video so I can repost it in a reply for Eyegore... I just wanna make sure he doesn't somehow miss it.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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20-02-2012, 12:19 PM
RE: God Exists
(20-02-2012 12:17 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(20-02-2012 12:07 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(20-02-2012 02:06 AM)Egor Wrote:  I was driving into work today and it was raining. And I realized that God was conscious of every raindrop. In fact, he's conscious of every molecule of air, and every star in the universe, at all times.

I think I see the problem here.
It's linguistic.

It's the confusion of the word "god" for the word "nature" and the word "conscious" with the word "present".

Simple mistake to make.

Hence, if you worship Gwynnies, you won't have this problem.
Lotta tao in the Gwynnies. Wink

[Image: klingon_zps7e68578a.jpg]
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20-02-2012, 12:24 PM
RE: God Exists
(20-02-2012 12:19 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(20-02-2012 12:17 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(20-02-2012 12:07 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(20-02-2012 02:06 AM)Egor Wrote:  I was driving into work today and it was raining. And I realized that God was conscious of every raindrop. In fact, he's conscious of every molecule of air, and every star in the universe, at all times.

I think I see the problem here.
It's linguistic.

It's the confusion of the word "god" for the word "nature" and the word "conscious" with the word "present".

Simple mistake to make.

Hence, if you worship Gwynnies, you won't have this problem.
Lotta tao in the Gwynnies. Wink

Amen!

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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20-02-2012, 03:07 PM (This post was last modified: 20-02-2012 03:12 PM by Starcrash.)
RE: God Exists
(19-02-2012 11:32 PM)Egor Wrote:  What is time? Does time even exist in reality. Some would say it doesn’t. I am one of those. Time is just an illusion based on the relative motions of objects in the universe, and even that motion is illusory, for things are really not going anywhere when they move.

Consider this: The past is gone and the future has not yet occurred. Right? And that being the case, we still see that consciousness ticks right along in this eternal present moment.

Time is measurable. Additionally, it is something that we commonly experience. The "some" that say it doesn't exist are not experts, and since you didn't cite a source, are anonymous. Denying time doesn't make it cease to exist. This, unlike your concept of God, is testable and verifiable through the scientific method.

This statement --- "consciousness ticks right along in this eternal present moment" --- is silly. We only observe the present with our "consciousness", but our memories still retain a record of the past. Are you denying that the past exists just because we can't "presently" observe it?

Quote:God of the gaps is a valid argument, assuming we define God and that definition explains things... An argument can be bad and still be right.

No, it's a logical fallacy, or what we call "the very opposite of a valid argument". I could just assume that the universe came from the armpit of The Flying Spaghetti Monster, but assuming something just for lack of an argument is an Argument from Ignorance.

If you feel that logical fallacies are still fine arguments and don't understand the importance of logic in a debate, I simply have nothing useful to offer you.

Quote:I’m not going to spend a lot of time responding to this, because I never said God created the universe out of nothing. That would be dualism, or lead to it, and I don’t believe in that either.

I gave you the terms that philosophers use to speak of creation, and dualism isn't one of them. I simply have no idea how that would have anything to do with creation in any way, shape, or form. You appear to be confused.

Are you instead arguing that God created the universe out of something? Or are you arguing that God did not create the universe? I think it was a fair assumption, but feel free to correct me with your real view.

Quote:Everything in a dream is made of consciousness. Is a dream real? While you’re in it, it sure is. Are we living in what amounts to a lucid dream of God’s. I think we are. And of course I must, because I believe God is the only thing that exists, and the only model of creation I can fathom given that position is a lucid dream.

Now, you will say, “prove it,” but I don’t know how. How does the dream character prove that they are in a dream? They would have to somehow manifest the consciousness of the dreaming mind.

You're just making assertions. But let me correct your warped view of "consciousness", please.

Consciousness is not a physical thing. To quote the link, it is "a term that refers to the relationship between the mind and the world with which it interacts". Like freedom, happiness, and stress, consciousness is a noun that refers to an idea. Because it is not a physical thing (argued only by dualists, which you implicitly told me that you are not), it can't create other physical things. A dream is not a product of consciousness, but rather a product of our brains while in a state of sleep. A dream is not a physical thing either, so to call it "real" is likewise meaningless (in the same way that calling other ideas like freedom, happiness, and stress "real" also doesn't make sense).

Let me make this clear - just because a word is a noun and we talk about it as if it is a "thing" does not make it a thing. Consciousness and dreams are concepts, not material items. They don't make physical things, and that includes us.

You say that you don't know how to prove it, and that's a problem. I originally engaged you because, in the thread entitled "You Have Nothing to Add", you said "I can make a positive case for God". But you haven't done that, and now you're claiming that your entire case comes down to simply announcing what you believe and having us take you on faith. Do you see why that's useless? We're not asking you to take us on faith, nor would we expect you to do that. Make a case, or just admit it's a belief based on just faith and nothing more.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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20-02-2012, 04:38 PM
 
RE: God Exists
(20-02-2012 03:07 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  You say that you don't know how to prove it, and that's a problem. I originally engaged you because, in the thread entitled "You Have Nothing to Add", you said "I can make a positive case for God". But you haven't done that,

Starcrash, settle down there man...he's only RECENTLY ordered the Lee Strobel book (as you can see from his Amazon profile). Let him read Lee's nonsene about proving god so Ego can have an opinion. Give the boy time to read "The Case for a Creator" then he'll smack you down! :-)

See the bottom of this page for his recent purchases.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/ANK..._cd_et_pdp

You should be afraid, very afraid...as he's got the power of Strobel on his side!

D
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20-02-2012, 05:34 PM
RE: God Exists
(20-02-2012 05:58 AM)bemore Wrote:  
(19-02-2012 11:32 PM)Egor Wrote:  What is time? Does time even exist in reality. Some would say it doesn’t. I am one of those. Time is just an illusion based on the relative motions of objects in the universe, and even that motion is illusory, for things are really not going anywhere when they move.
This I can agree with you.

Time is the result of things not happening all at once. It is not an object, nor is it an illusion. Objects go somewhere when they move, otherwise they would not be moving. They are not here and there at the same time, they traverse the interval of space over time.

I am definitely secure in the knowledge that Egor is in the habit of making things up to suit his beliefs and reality has no meaning to him.

When I find myself in times of trouble, Richard Dawkins comes to me, speaking words of reason, now I see, now I see.
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