God = Kim Jong-il
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23-11-2015, 08:11 AM
RE: God = Kim Jong-il
One man said "I've always been an atheist, but I've always known all f the attributes of the god I don't believe in."
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23-11-2015, 08:15 AM
RE: God = Kim Jong-il
(23-11-2015 08:00 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Clinging to a believe despite contrary factual evedince is willful ignorance. Faith does not conflict with any fact I know of, there for, not falling into the "willful ignorance category".

Surely some religious beliefs contradict scientific truths, these exceptions could be seen as willful ignorance.

Maybe you should check out the Babble definition of faith. Faith is the belief in things not seen. etc...
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23-11-2015, 08:44 AM
RE: God = Kim Jong-il
(23-11-2015 08:08 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(23-11-2015 07:56 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Oh yeah? Why would someone have shame from knowledge or Faith? That makes no sense. If one doesn't attempt to share what they know then that could lead to shame.

He didn't say knowledge - just faith.

Faith is not knowledge and saying it is makes you a moron.
Says the man ignorant of faith.
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23-11-2015, 08:45 AM
RE: God = Kim Jong-il
(23-11-2015 08:15 AM)DerFish Wrote:  
(23-11-2015 08:00 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Clinging to a believe despite contrary factual evedince is willful ignorance. Faith does not conflict with any fact I know of, there for, not falling into the "willful ignorance category".

Surely some religious beliefs contradict scientific truths, these exceptions could be seen as willful ignorance.

Maybe you should check out the Babble definition of faith. Faith is the belief in things not seen. etc...
Maybe you should provide evidence that contradicts Faith or belief in God in any way.
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23-11-2015, 08:47 AM
RE: God = Kim Jong-il
(23-11-2015 08:44 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(23-11-2015 08:08 AM)Chas Wrote:  He didn't say knowledge - just faith.

Faith is not knowledge and saying it is makes you a moron.
Says the man ignorant of faith.

No, I simply don't confuse faith with knowledge.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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23-11-2015, 10:09 AM (This post was last modified: 23-11-2015 10:12 AM by unfogged.)
RE: God = Kim Jong-il
(23-11-2015 07:56 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Oh yeah? Why would someone have shame from knowledge or Faith? That makes no sense. If one doesn't attempt to share what they know then that could lead to shame.

Yeah. As Chas noted, knowledge isn't anything to be ashamed of. Pretending to have knowledge is. That's what faith is -- pretending to know something that you don't. You aren't sharing what you know, you are sharing what you believe and refusing to provide any factual basis to support it. That's preaching in my book and I find it particularly abhorrent.

(23-11-2015 08:44 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Says the man ignorant of faith.

He is not ignorant of faith, he understands it all too well. I suspect you actually meant something like "bereft of faith" and intended it as a disparagement. Free clue: the rejection of faith as a foundation for belief is the first step towards rationality.

(23-11-2015 08:00 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Clinging to a believe despite contrary factual evedince is willful ignorance.

Clinging to a belief when you know that you have no evidence to support it is also being willfully ignorant.

(23-11-2015 08:45 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Maybe you should provide evidence that contradicts Faith or belief in God in any way.

You still do not understand the burden of proof. You claim to be certain that a god exists. You have the obligation to provide evidence to support your position. As the axiom goes... claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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23-11-2015, 08:48 PM
RE: God = Kim Jong-il
(23-11-2015 10:09 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(23-11-2015 07:56 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Oh yeah? Why would someone have shame from knowledge or Faith? That makes no sense. If one doesn't attempt to share what they know then that could lead to shame.

Yeah. As Chas noted, knowledge isn't anything to be ashamed of. Pretending to have knowledge is. That's what faith is -- pretending to know something that you don't. You aren't sharing what you know, you are sharing what you believe and refusing to provide any factual basis to support it. That's preaching in my book and I find it particularly abhorrent.

(23-11-2015 08:44 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Says the man ignorant of faith.

He is not ignorant of faith, he understands it all too well. I suspect you actually meant something like "bereft of faith" and intended it as a disparagement. Free clue: the rejection of faith as a foundation for belief is the first step towards rationality.

(23-11-2015 08:00 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Clinging to a believe despite contrary factual evedince is willful ignorance.

Clinging to a belief when you know that you have no evidence to support it is also being willfully ignorant.

(23-11-2015 08:45 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Maybe you should provide evidence that contradicts Faith or belief in God in any way.

You still do not understand the burden of proof. You claim to be certain that a god exists. You have the obligation to provide evidence to support your position. As the axiom goes... claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
No one has to believe me. Don't have to prove anything. It doesn't make sense to completely and wholly not believe a thing, and the go on to make claims about it as if you have experience with it. Just because someone cannot produce evidence to the liking of sceptics doesn't mean that they haven't witnessed irrefutable evidence themselves. It just means that they can't reproduce the evidence.
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23-11-2015, 08:53 PM
RE: God = Kim Jong-il
(23-11-2015 08:48 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(23-11-2015 10:09 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Yeah. As Chas noted, knowledge isn't anything to be ashamed of. Pretending to have knowledge is. That's what faith is -- pretending to know something that you don't. You aren't sharing what you know, you are sharing what you believe and refusing to provide any factual basis to support it. That's preaching in my book and I find it particularly abhorrent.


He is not ignorant of faith, he understands it all too well. I suspect you actually meant something like "bereft of faith" and intended it as a disparagement. Free clue: the rejection of faith as a foundation for belief is the first step towards rationality.


Clinging to a belief when you know that you have no evidence to support it is also being willfully ignorant.


You still do not understand the burden of proof. You claim to be certain that a god exists. You have the obligation to provide evidence to support your position. As the axiom goes... claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
No one has to believe me. Don't have to prove anything. It doesn't make sense to completely and wholly not believe a thing, and the go on to make claims about it as if you have experience with it. Just because someone cannot produce evidence to the liking of sceptics doesn't mean that they haven't witnessed irrefutable evidence themselves. It just means that they can't reproduce the evidence.

If it cannot be seen by others, it is not evidence. Pull your head out of your ass.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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23-11-2015, 08:59 PM
RE: God = Kim Jong-il
(23-11-2015 08:48 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(23-11-2015 10:09 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Yeah. As Chas noted, knowledge isn't anything to be ashamed of. Pretending to have knowledge is. That's what faith is -- pretending to know something that you don't. You aren't sharing what you know, you are sharing what you believe and refusing to provide any factual basis to support it. That's preaching in my book and I find it particularly abhorrent.


He is not ignorant of faith, he understands it all too well. I suspect you actually meant something like "bereft of faith" and intended it as a disparagement. Free clue: the rejection of faith as a foundation for belief is the first step towards rationality.


Clinging to a belief when you know that you have no evidence to support it is also being willfully ignorant.


You still do not understand the burden of proof. You claim to be certain that a god exists. You have the obligation to provide evidence to support your position. As the axiom goes... claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
No one has to believe me. Don't have to prove anything. It doesn't make sense to completely and wholly not believe a thing, and the go on to make claims about it as if you have experience with it. Just because someone cannot produce evidence to the liking of sceptics doesn't mean that they haven't witnessed irrefutable evidence themselves. It just means that they can't reproduce the evidence.

The brings up the real problem.. you make it about, If a person experienced it, it should matter to them.. why? If they themselves "can't reproduce the evidence" then why would that person even bother to believe it themselves if they can't prove it to themselves?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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23-11-2015, 09:09 PM
RE: God = Kim Jong-il
(18-11-2015 12:21 PM)mgoering Wrote:  God is to you what Kim Jong-Il is to the North Korean people.

Dead? And replaced by his kid?
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