God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
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20-02-2014, 05:49 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
(20-02-2014 01:33 PM)CleverUsername Wrote:  Courage and sympathy are both things you need because of hardship. Removing hardship removes the reason for them.

For everything else (actually, include both of them), there are other, nonlethal ways to gain them. Why is God so unimaginative his solution is always to kill something?
Suffering isn't necessarily lethal. Don't know where you got that from.
Quote:Shocking...No, no I'm pretty sure your toddler son falls under "what's really important".
Sure is...but do all people realize that? Do you ever hear of a child dying and think, "Hey, I haven't been spending enough time with my kids, and they're what's really important"? I have. Lots of people have. Listen to some Harry Chapin.

Quote:Um, yes, an inability to speak, think, or do anything, is often a symptom of BEING DEAD. That doesn't mean it's ok that they died, it doesn't mean it's ok that they lost all their potential and will never get a chance to be happy and live their lives.
God gave them the potential, and they'll get eternity to be happy.

BTW, why don't you guys bitch about someone who dies at 60? What's the cutoff point of enough life?
Quote:Also, the kid being dead isn't a big deal, but fear of death is a major reason religion still exists. I think this counts as irony.
The kid being dead is a very big deal.

Quote:So, the people that never recover and struggle for the rest of their lives, or lose their lives...what's with them?
They reject god's grace.
Quote:See, that's the interesting thing about science: No matter how much you hate it, it doesn't go away. Even if I did hate evolution, it wouldn't mean jack squat.

Also, the reason people hate the idea of God making this stuff is because he's supposed to be a conscious, all knowing, all powerful, all loving creature. Evolution is not, therefore people don't get mad at it like they do the idea of God.
The Bible doesn't say he's all loving. It clearly portrays other aspects of him.
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20-02-2014, 05:50 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
(20-02-2014 05:43 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  What was the point of the child's life then? To teach a lesson to its parents or caregivers?
Yes, that's probably part of the point of the child's life.
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20-02-2014, 05:53 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
(20-02-2014 05:50 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(20-02-2014 05:43 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  What was the point of the child's life then? To teach a lesson to its parents or caregivers?
Yes, that's probably part of the point of the child's life.

And God malformed the child purposely to teach the parents a lesson? OK. If the parents are non-Christian, what lesson would they have learned?

Doc
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20-02-2014, 06:01 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
(20-02-2014 12:11 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(20-02-2014 12:01 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  You hit the nail on the head with this simple, yet obvious question. My bet is that am doesn't respond to this question.
The little boy was given life. So far no one has disputed that his life was a net good, and that doesn't even consider the possibility of eternal life in heaven.

Unfortunately it's all too common for people to be given something good, but rather than be happy about it, they get angry because it could have been something better. Despite the suffering, I think life is a net good, so I'm grateful for it.

"...a net good"... so that's how it works with your god?

That is so fucked up.

Child's parents: "Dear God, why don't you answer our prayers and cure our child?"

God: "Hey, what else do you want from me? I gave the kid three years, sure the poor boy is in pain and the family is heartbroken but look at the bright side, I could have only given him TWO years!"

Meanwhile alfalfa male is grateful for it! And why not? It's not his kid.

Goddamn you're a sick fuck.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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20-02-2014, 06:04 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
(20-02-2014 05:53 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  And God malformed the child purposely to teach the parents a lesson? OK. If the parents are non-Christian, what lesson would they have learned?

Doc
Here's some:
http://www.consciousmoms.org/?p=625
Quote:These are lessons that have changed my life and made me a better parent. Though the process has, at times, been challenging, I am so grateful to have been given the opportunity to learn them. And I’m still learning all the time. I thought I’d share some of these lessons with you:
-Perfection is not a worthy goal, for my child, or for myself (or, in my humble opinion, for anyone else, for that matter). Striving toward perfection is a sure way to make sure you’re disappointed in the end. It’s great to have goals, intentions, and aspirations; but demanding faultlessness of yourself or your children puts a lot of stress on both of you, and makes authentic, messy human reality into the enemy. How much better a role model can I be if I show my child what it looks like to make mistakes; to reach for a goal, but not always make it; to try valiantly at something, but be able to walk away with pride for the effort, rather than a blue ribbon for first place? If I want my child to accept herself for who she is, it’s a good idea to start by showing her that I accept myself for who I am, despite my faults and frailties.
-Accepting what is is a powerful way to meet any moment (or person). When we encounter the unexpected in life, it’s easy to react with resistance. “This isn’t what I planned or expected. This isn’t how it’s supposed to go,” you might think (or at least I did). But meeting life with this kind of resistance makes the journey much more difficult. Think about how it feels when someone or something resists you. It often causes you to unconsciously put your guard up in response. On the other hand, when you’re met with acceptance, you bring a different energy to the situation. Though it may take time to adjust when you’re met with the unexpected, when you can meet the moment with acceptance, rather than resistance, things flow much more easily.
-Our children are not here to fulfill our dreams or longings, to be extensions of us, or to otherwise make us whole or complete. Our children are whole beings in their own right from the moment they arrive here on earth (though they need our love, support, and guidance). The earlier you let go of your expectations for what your children are going to do, be, feel, want, etc., the earlier you can appreciate them for who they are and separate your dreams for your life from what you hope for your children. Children will have their own dreams, their own talents, their own path and lessons to learn. Though we are here to love and guide them through life, we cannot learn their lessons for them, and they can’t learn ours for us. As parents, we have our own paths, which we are responsible for.
-Love and acceptance are transformative. Children, like all people, can feel the energy we carry with us. If we are worried, stressed, or concerned, they know that. They also know when they are truly and deeply loved and accepted. It allows them to be who they are with abandon, to freely explore life, and feel confident in who they are. Love and acceptance allow us all to flourish into who we genuinely are.
- We all have “special needs.” Each one of us is an individual with strengths and weaknesses, as well as unique gifts we are here to share. We all need support in some areas; it’s part of the human condition. These areas are not ones we should be embarrassed of; they are what makes us human. If we can embrace our needs and those of others without fear, we can meet life in a more powerful way.
-A happy, secure child is the mark of a successful parent. We all know, deep down, that being a good parent has little to do with the material things we can give our children, or the things our children accomplish. Rather, our presence, our care, and our love are our real gifts to our children. Knowing that your parents are there for you in a genuine, connected way is a huge gift to a child, and it allows children to feel whole, accepted, and loved. That feeling brings children a great deal of security and joy. This is success as a parent, as far as I’m concerned. At the end of the day, we really want our children to be happy and know that they are loved. And it’s important to remember, as a parent, that one of the essential ways to instill happiness in a child is to show them what it looks like by finding ways to be happy yourself. We can’t just teach with our words; we have to do it with our actions.
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20-02-2014, 06:06 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
(20-02-2014 06:01 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Meanwhile alfalfa male is grateful for it! And why not? It's not his kid.

Goddamn you're a sick fuck.
Check out the link above. The mom says "I am so grateful to have been given the opportunity to learn them." Is she a sick fuck?
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20-02-2014, 06:12 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
(20-02-2014 06:06 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(20-02-2014 06:01 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Meanwhile alfalfa male is grateful for it! And why not? It's not his kid.

Goddamn you're a sick fuck.
Check out the link above. The mom says "I am so grateful to have been given the opportunity to learn them." Is she a sick fuck?

That is from a 2009 article written by someone else. Facepalm

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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20-02-2014, 06:13 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
(20-02-2014 06:01 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  "...a net good"... so that's how it works with your god?

That is so fucked up.

Child's parents: "Dear God, why don't you answer our prayers and cure our child?"

God: "Hey, what else do you want from me? I gave the kid three years, sure the poor boy is in pain and the family is heartbroken but look at the bright side, I could have only given him TWO years!"

Meanwhile alfalfa male is grateful for it! And why not? It's not his kid.

Goddamn you're a sick fuck.

I'm used to hearing the "best of all possible worlds" defense brought up to figure out why God uses things like this toward his net good. It's a weird defense, but I guess it's slightly more thought out than "who are you to question God!?".

That being said, this looks like a combination of that, and some new "Hey, God could always have made it worse" defense. I'll be honest: that's a new one to me. I've never actually seen that defense used before. Awesome.
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20-02-2014, 06:13 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
Here's a woman whose near-term baby died inside of her. She had to carry it for two more days until the hospital could do the induced labor. She says she learned valuable things from the experience. What a sick fuck!
http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/pamela_jorrick.html

And this sick fuck's child died at age ten after lifelong health problems. Check this shit out:
Quote:When Mitchell passed away, Natalie Jones said she panicked wondering if she had fulfilled her role as mother and taught her son everything he needed to know. "Then the thought came to me as was spoken in a blessing ... that he wasn't on this earth to be taught but to teach," said his mother.

The following are the lessons Natalie Jones learned from her son and recounted at his funeral service.

"Mitchell taught me even under the toughest of circumstances to smile. No matter how difficult the road, he smiled through the journey. One time in particular, after a hard, miserable 60-minute MRI scan that pulled his ear and eye hardware off, he tried to tell someone but no one could hear him. I wasn't allowed in the room, so I couldn't help him. I will never forget the moment I first saw him as they pushed him down the hallway, he was smiling through his tears. Upset about his experience but trying to make the best of things.

"He taught me about obedience. He would only participate in uplifting activities on Sundays and made sure his other siblings would adhere to Sabbath standards. He brought his scriptures to church every Sunday and always had an extra copy for his friend who seemed to always forget his. When it came time for chores, he was always first to get them out of the way, even before he was dressed for the day.

"He taught me about the wise use of agency. He always planned his day and would do his best to never waste a minute of it. To Mitch, life was a gift that he treasured greatly. Even during the difficult days leading to his passing, he wanted to use it wisely. As his body was shutting down, he was becoming very week and sleeping most of the day. When he would wake up at various times he would always ask what the exact time was. Mitch could not believe that he had wasted his whole day sleeping; he had things to accomplish.

"Mitchell taught me to enjoy the little things that life has to offer. He loved soft pillows, stuffed animals and real animals. He enjoyed baths and good smells. He loved a competitive game of UNO on a Friday night. He loved his close friends who were there for him till the very end. He loved his iPod and took pictures of a beautiful sunrise and sunset. Nothing was too small for Mitch. He appreciated the little things.

"He also taught me to endure to the end. With an ejection fraction of 5 percent and very low blood pressure, his already frail heart should not have been working. 'This Mitchell must have an amazing spirit because he's giving it all he has till the very, very end,' our nurse said. Mitchell's body and heart worked so very hard to survive until the very last moment.

"My experience with Mitch has also taught me more about the importance of families. His sister Laura-Ashley took such good care of him; she laughed with him often and always offered deep affection and lifted his spirits. His older brother, Ethan, also cared for him and took time every single day to give Mitch a hug at school and told him he cared and was there for him. Wyatt, Mitchell's younger brother, said while we were in the CICU unit at Primary Children's Medical Center that he would give his own heart to his brother if he could.

"Mitchie taught me about faith and prayer. He had so much faith in prayer. He knew that if he prayed every night Heavenly Father would help him be safe. If there was an especially blustery night he would ask me to pray for him as well, so that he wouldn't worry and could sleep. During his last month of life he prayed constantly and asked for Priesthood blessings often. He had great faith that his prayers would be answered and they were.

"The last lesson I learned is the most important and perhaps the hardest one of all: to find comfort and peace through Christ and the Atonement even during this extremely hard and painful time. I am coming to learn on a deeper level how Christ can heal my broken heart.

"I know during the years ahead I will miss my sweet boy terribly. And the Savior's words will continue to speak peace to my soul. I know that I will see him again I know that because Christ lives.

"Mitchell will forever be in my heart along with all of the treasured lessons he taught me."
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20-02-2014, 06:16 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
(20-02-2014 06:04 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(20-02-2014 05:53 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  And God malformed the child purposely to teach the parents a lesson? OK. If the parents are non-Christian, what lesson would they have learned?

Doc
Here's some:
http://www.consciousmoms.org/?p=625
Gotcha. And if this woman dies without knowing Christ she will burn in hell forever. What would have been the purpose of the lesson then? What about all the Muslims, Hindus or other religionists with malformed babies? What lessons would the parents have learned and why?
Doc
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