God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
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21-02-2014, 01:08 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
(21-02-2014 12:57 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(21-02-2014 12:45 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  How does God malform the child? He's responsible for making it. I've asked this question twice.
I don't know.

What is the woman above to be forgiven for? I've asked this question twice.

It was a figure of speech meaning her actions are understandable. She has nothing to be forgiven for.

Let us consider how God may malform babies.

In Exodus 4:11, God says, "Who gave man his mouth? Who makes him deaf or mute? Who gives him sight or makes him blind? Is it not I, the Lord?“

Well then, does he reach into the womb and turn off a chemical signal that was supposed to have happened at a specific time for a specific purpose?

Does he allow a naturally occurring pathologic process, such as an infection (like German measles), to proceed, resulting in a congenital abnormality?

Is it possible that God might actively cause a problem in a developing organ that, but for his interference, would have developed normally, such as a cataract in the fetal lens, a septal defect in the fetal heart, or any one of a myriad other congenital abnormalities that have been catalogued by modern science (see the pics earlier)?

If you claim that God allows the natural process of fertilization to proceed and only enters the picture later in the process, why then does he not choose to intervene when he sees an embryological process go awry?

In other words, is God actively or passively responsible for congenital abnormalities? Either way, he is culpable according to Jeremiah 1:4–5 and Psa. 139:13–16.

Doc
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21-02-2014, 02:15 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
(21-02-2014 12:13 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(21-02-2014 09:56 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  How does God malform the child?

Doc
I would say that your username should be artful dodger, except...you're not particularly artful about it.

I've presented people who have lived through these things and have a like position to mine. All the people calling me a sick fuck are also calling them sick fucks, or they're found to be in an ad hoc or special pleading fallacy.

Not at all. You are conflating two things.

Someone who has had misfortune will typically make the best of a bad deal. He or she will try to find some way to lessen the pain.

That in no way justifies your god inflicting that pain in the first place.

You are a sick fuck for believing that the suffering is justified.

You are a stupid sick fuck for not understanding the difference.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-02-2014, 03:20 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
(21-02-2014 02:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  Not at all. You are conflating two things.

Someone who has had misfortune will typically make the best of a bad deal. He or she will try to find some way to lessen the pain.

That in no way justifies your god inflicting that pain in the first place.

You are a sick fuck for believing that the suffering is justified.

You are a stupid sick fuck for not understanding the difference.
Either you're not reading or purposely ignoring what's said. Consider:
Quote:These are lessons that have changed my life and made me a better parent. Though the process has, at times, been challenging, I am so grateful to have been given the opportunity to learn them.
She's not just making the best of a bad deal, she is grateful for what happened and thinks it made her a better person.
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21-02-2014, 03:23 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
(21-02-2014 01:08 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  It was a figure of speech meaning her actions are understandable. She has nothing to be forgiven for.
Do you agree with her that the situation is something to be grateful for and which made her a better person?
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21-02-2014, 03:24 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
(21-02-2014 03:20 PM)alpha male Wrote:  Either you're not reading or purposely ignoring what's said. Consider:
Quote:These are lessons that have changed my life and made me a better parent. Though the process has, at times, been challenging, I am so grateful to have been given the opportunity to learn them.
She's not just making the best of a bad deal, she is grateful for what happened and thinks it made her a better person.

Grateful to whom?
Doc
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21-02-2014, 03:26 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
(21-02-2014 05:57 AM)alpha male Wrote:  
(20-02-2014 09:15 PM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  The sick fuck in this thread is Alpha.
What about the examples I gave of people affected by congenital conditions who say they've learned from the situation and are grateful for it? Are they sick fucks?

Yes, I think that it's better to learn and grow from a horrible situation than to sink into despair. That makes me a sick fuck?

Am I gonna do a good thing if I smash you in the face with a shovel? You gonna grow because of it?
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21-02-2014, 03:38 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
Alpha,
Here's the lady's note:
"Well, the Universe came up with a great way to rid me of all of this nonsense. The Universe gave me a bright, charming, beautiful daughter with special needs. When we first became aware of our daughter’s special needs, it was a huge shock to my system. My plans for my new daughter’s life had never factored in such a possibility. What followed was a tremendous growth period for me that gave me some startling lessons in what really matters in this life. These are lessons that have changed my life and made me a better parent. Though the process has, at times, been challenging, I am so grateful to have been given the opportunity to learn them. And I’m still learning all the time."

Who is she grateful to? The Universe? She's making the best of a bad situation.

Now, you go tell her that your God reached into her womb and made her precious child into a special needs child and that she should be grateful that that's all she has to deal with. Fortunately, the child does not Patau syndrome or cri-du-chat or anencephaly, so she should be grateful for that. And all this so that she can learn patience, kindness and whatnot. Let's see how far you get.

You were a bad person once (you said you were a drug abuser). Why did God not afflict your children to make you a better person (I assume your kids are healthy)? I wouldn't wish that on even you. Why are you so callous? What happened to your sympathy and empathy?

Your arguing here in such a fashion shows us all what religion, particularly Christianity can do to a person and I, at least want none of it. If I didn't like it before, I am positively repulsed by what I read now.

Peace.
Doc
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21-02-2014, 04:05 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
(21-02-2014 03:38 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  Alpha,
Here's the lady's note:
"Well, the Universe came up with a great way to rid me of all of this nonsense. The Universe gave me a bright, charming, beautiful daughter with special needs. When we first became aware of our daughter’s special needs, it was a huge shock to my system. My plans for my new daughter’s life had never factored in such a possibility. What followed was a tremendous growth period for me that gave me some startling lessons in what really matters in this life. These are lessons that have changed my life and made me a better parent. Though the process has, at times, been challenging, I am so grateful to have been given the opportunity to learn them. And I’m still learning all the time."

Who is she grateful to? The Universe? She's making the best of a bad situation.
No, she's grateful to have been given the opportunity to learn. She said so. That she's grateful that some form of fate or determinism caused it rather than a god doesn't change the fact that she has not just dealt with the situation, but is grateful to have gone through it.
Quote:Now, you go tell her that your God reached into her womb and made her precious child into a special needs child and that she should be grateful that that's all she has to deal with. Fortunately, the child does not Patau syndrome or cri-du-chat or anencephaly, so she should be grateful for that. And all this so that she can learn patience, kindness and whatnot. Let's see how far you get.
You go tell her that she's a sick fuck for being grateful and viewing the situation as an opportunity to learn. I'm pretty sure I'll get further than you.
Quote:You were a bad person once (you said you were a drug abuser). Why did God not afflict your children to make you a better person (I assume your kids are healthy)?
I guess you don't know much about addiction. It's an affliction in itself. And our children are happy, but we went through several miscarriages before them and one since.
Quote:I wouldn't wish that on even you. Why are you so callous? What happened to your sympathy and empathy?
Do you consider the woman who's grateful to have had a special needs child to be callous and devoid of sympathy and empathy?
Quote:Your arguing here in such a fashion shows us all what religion, particularly Christianity can do to a person and I, at least want none of it. If I didn't like it before, I am positively repulsed by what I read now.
You guys lost this part of the argument when I put up those links. At this point I just find it interesting to see how far you'll go accusing me while dodging the fact that you're also accusing them.
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21-02-2014, 04:07 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
Actually the fact that religion encourages people to be grateful for the evil things that happen to them is one of the reasons I hate religion. It encourages victimization and masochism. Which in turn lead to self hatred and twisted morals. Diddo is a good example of this.
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21-02-2014, 04:17 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
(21-02-2014 04:07 PM)donotwant Wrote:  Actually the fact that religion encourages people to be grateful for the evil things that happen to them is one of the reasons I hate religion. It encourages victimization and masochism. Which in turn lead to self hatred and twisted morals. Diddo is a good example of this.
As has been noted, the woman I've been quoted doesn't seem to be religious, saying she's grateful to the universe for her special needs child and what she's learned from the experience. Do you hate her and/or the universe?
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