God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
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21-02-2014, 04:22 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
alpha, I'm trying to wrap my head around your position.

You are saying that you are fine with your personal God inflicting abnormalities and diseases on people, including children, because these are learning opportunities through pain and suffering for those that love and care for that human being; lessons God wants to teach them?

Is this correct? If it is does this not strike you as unimaginably callous? Evil even?

You said you have children. I cannot believe that it would cross your mind to inflict severe punishment on one of your children so that the others can learn some kind of "positive" lesson from this. And then afterwards expect the children to thank you and absolve you for whatever punishment you metted out including, but not limited to, blindness, deafness, amputation or even death. Please tell me I have this all wrong because this is what I take away from your posts.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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21-02-2014, 04:46 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
(21-02-2014 04:22 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  You said you have children. I cannot believe that it would cross your mind to inflict severe punishment on one of your children so that the others can learn some kind of "positive" lesson from this. And then afterwards expect the children to thank you and absolve you for whatever punishment you metted out including, but not limited to, blindness, deafness, amputation or even death. Please tell me I have this all wrong because this is what I take away from your posts.

The 'lessons through suffering' angle has been poorly presented a few times on this forum:

1. God inflicts suffering so we can learn lessons;
2. This suffering varies from addiction, to physical pain, to terminally ill children;
3. It is not wrong for people to be grateful for god for what he's done, because they've learned from it, regardless of the cost;
4. While god could teach these lessons other ways (if he's omnipotent), it's ok that he uses the current methods;
5. All the 'examples' that had to die to teach the lesson are rewarded with heaven if below a certain age (not my rule, another theist's);
6. If a person inflicts mortal harm another person, also with the sincere intention of teaching a lesson, they are evil;

So if god kills a child with a degenerative disease, it's good to be thankful for what he did because a lesson is learned. If I strike a child to teach them how to handle the inevitable physical pains they will encounter in life, I rightfully go to jail, even though my suffering causes a fraction of what a disease can do.

Seems legit.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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21-02-2014, 04:49 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
(21-02-2014 04:22 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  alpha, I'm trying to wrap my head around your position.

You are saying that you are fine with
"Fine with" is nebulous. I've been through things that had me saying I hated god. I still believed he existed, but hated him for allowing certain things to happen in my life. Now I think I'm better off for it. Here's a person who lost three children to a relative's drunk driving. She quite understandably went through a period of anger toward god, but has since refound her faith. Are she and I "fine with" god allowing tragedies?
http://www.lhj.com/relationships/family/...-children/
Quote:your personal God inflicting abnormalities and diseases on people,
I'd rather say A&E did the inflicting, and god allows it and uses it for his own purposes. And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God
Quote:including children, because these are learning opportunities through pain and suffering for those that love and care for that human being; lessons God wants to teach them?
Yes. I've presented people who have been through such things and are grateful for the learning opportunity, but you guys don't take them at their word for some reason.
Quote:Is this correct? If it is does this not strike you as unimaginably callous? Evil even?
No. Why would giving someone something that they find to be a net positive be considered evil?
Quote:You said you have children. I cannot believe that it would cross your mind to inflict severe punishment on one of your children so that the others can learn some kind of "positive" lesson from this.
No, it wouldn't, but I'm not god and can't see all ends.
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21-02-2014, 04:53 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
(21-02-2014 04:17 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(21-02-2014 04:07 PM)donotwant Wrote:  Actually the fact that religion encourages people to be grateful for the evil things that happen to them is one of the reasons I hate religion. It encourages victimization and masochism. Which in turn lead to self hatred and twisted morals. Diddo is a good example of this.
As has been noted, the woman I've been quoted doesn't seem to be religious, saying she's grateful to the universe for her special needs child and what she's learned from the experience. Do you hate her and/or the universe?

I don't hate her I feel sorry for her.
The universe? I don't hate it either cause it doesn't have the choice but to obey the physical laws.
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21-02-2014, 04:55 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
(21-02-2014 04:46 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  
(21-02-2014 04:22 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  You said you have children. I cannot believe that it would cross your mind to inflict severe punishment on one of your children so that the others can learn some kind of "positive" lesson from this. And then afterwards expect the children to thank you and absolve you for whatever punishment you metted out including, but not limited to, blindness, deafness, amputation or even death. Please tell me I have this all wrong because this is what I take away from your posts.

The 'lessons through suffering' angle has been poorly presented a few times on this forum:

1. God inflicts suffering so we can learn lessons;
2. This suffering varies from addiction, to physical pain, to terminally ill children;
3. It is not wrong for people to be grateful for god for what he's done, because they've learned from it, regardless of the cost;
4. While god could teach these lessons other ways (if he's omnipotent), it's ok that he uses the current methods;
5. All the 'examples' that had to die to teach the lesson are rewarded with heaven if below a certain age (not my rule, another theist's);
6. If a person inflicts mortal harm another person, also with the sincere intention of teaching a lesson, they are evil;

So if god kills a child with a degenerative disease, it's good to be thankful for what he did because a lesson is learned. If I strike a child to teach them how to handle the inevitable physical pains they will encounter in life, I rightfully go to jail, even though my suffering causes a fraction of what a disease can do.

Seems legit.

Crud, suddenly the religious nutjobs who beat their kids halfway or all the way to death make sense (from their point of view); "God gets to inflict pain and death for lessons, why not us?". Sadcryface
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21-02-2014, 04:59 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
(21-02-2014 04:53 PM)donotwant Wrote:  I don't hate her I feel sorry for her.
Do you mean you feel sorry for her just for her situation, or also because she views her situation as a net positive?
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21-02-2014, 05:00 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
(21-02-2014 04:59 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(21-02-2014 04:53 PM)donotwant Wrote:  I don't hate her I feel sorry for her.
Do you mean you feel sorry for her just for her situation, or also because she views her situation as a net positive?

I don't think it's right for people to view bad things as positive.
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21-02-2014, 05:02 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
(21-02-2014 05:00 PM)donotwant Wrote:  
(21-02-2014 04:59 PM)alpha male Wrote:  Do you mean you feel sorry for her just for her situation, or also because she views her situation as a net positive?

I don't think it's right for people to view bad things as positive.
So she's a sick fuck in your opinion?
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21-02-2014, 05:03 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
(21-02-2014 05:02 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(21-02-2014 05:00 PM)donotwant Wrote:  I don't think it's right for people to view bad things as positive.
So she's a sick fuck in your opinion?

Not a sick fuck. Just mistaken.
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21-02-2014, 05:04 PM
RE: God Works in Mysterious Ways (or God is such a Prankster)
@ full circle

Maybe this simple way of looking at it would help.

Do you think the world is a better place because this child lived?

If yes, then quit bitching.

If no, then you're the sick fuck.
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