God and Free Will!
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11-12-2013, 01:27 PM
God and Free Will!
Supposedly the mystical magician in the sky gave mankind free will but knows the outcome of our actions. How is it free will if the mystical magician knows the outcome and if he/she/it didn't know the outcome then how is he/she/it omniscient. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Onward, my faithful steed!
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11-12-2013, 01:31 PM
RE: God and Free Will!
(11-12-2013 01:27 PM)Crulax Wrote:  Supposedly the mystical magician in the sky gave mankind free will but knows the outcome of our actions. How is it free will if the mystical magician knows the outcome and if he/she/it didn't know the outcome then how is he/she/it omniscient. It just doesn't make sense to me.
Free will is an obscure term. For example, if I were free to choose to eat a piece of dung, then such freedom is only equivalent to stupidity.
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11-12-2013, 01:47 PM
RE: God and Free Will!
(11-12-2013 01:27 PM)Crulax Wrote:  Supposedly the mystical magician in the sky gave mankind free will but knows the outcome of our actions. How is it free will if the mystical magician knows the outcome and if he/she/it didn't know the outcome then how is he/she/it omniscient. It just doesn't make sense to me.
Another atheist here recently said that God, being God, can do anything. So what's your beef?
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11-12-2013, 02:01 PM
RE: God and Free Will!
(11-12-2013 01:47 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(11-12-2013 01:27 PM)Crulax Wrote:  Supposedly the mystical magician in the sky gave mankind free will but knows the outcome of our actions. How is it free will if the mystical magician knows the outcome and if he/she/it didn't know the outcome then how is he/she/it omniscient. It just doesn't make sense to me.
Another atheist here recently said that God, being God, can do anything. So what's your beef?

I have beef?Unsure

I was just making an observation. It just seems to me that if "God" knows the outcome then he/she/it is in control which does not support free will. On the other hand if he/she/it lacks knowledge of the outcome it doesn't support omniscience.

Onward, my faithful steed!
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11-12-2013, 02:05 PM
RE: God and Free Will!
(11-12-2013 02:01 PM)Crulax Wrote:  [quote='alpha male' pid='440647' dateline='1386791252']
I was just making an observation. It just seems to me that if "God" knows the outcome then he/she/it is in control which does not support free will. On the other hand if he/she/it lacks knowledge of the outcome it doesn't support omniscience.
Do you think "God" is omnipotent? Does omnipotence mean the ability to do anything? If you answer yes to both of those, then God can apparently be omniscient and also give us free will.
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11-12-2013, 02:10 PM
RE: God and Free Will!
(11-12-2013 02:05 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(11-12-2013 02:01 PM)Crulax Wrote:  [quote='alpha male' pid='440647' dateline='1386791252']
I was just making an observation. It just seems to me that if "God" knows the outcome then he/she/it is in control which does not support free will. On the other hand if he/she/it lacks knowledge of the outcome it doesn't support omniscience.
Do you think "God" is omnipotent? Does omnipotence mean the ability to do anything? If you answer yes to both of those, then God can apparently be omniscient and also give us free will.

No

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11-12-2013, 02:17 PM
RE: God and Free Will!
(11-12-2013 01:27 PM)Crulax Wrote:  Supposedly the mystical magician in the sky gave mankind free will but knows the outcome of our actions. How is it free will if the mystical magician knows the outcome and if he/she/it didn't know the outcome then how is he/she/it omniscient. It just doesn't make sense to me.
He knows for sure when there is final choice. You always may surprise God by your choice.

English is not my native language.
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11-12-2013, 02:18 PM
RE: God and Free Will!
(11-12-2013 02:01 PM)Crulax Wrote:  I was just making an observation. It just seems to me that if "God" knows the outcome then he/she/it is in control which does not support free will. On the other hand if he/she/it lacks knowledge of the outcome it doesn't support omniscience.

Knowledge of a choice doesn't mean determination of that choice. This came up on another thread but also related to prayer and actions- if God knows, why bother asking or doing? Look, for example, at the prophet Jeremiah. God says to him 'the people have turned away from me, so you're going to preach my word to them for 40 years. Your life will be in danger, they will hate you for it, and at the end of 40 years no one would have listened. You could ask in relation to free will, 'if God knew no one would listen anyway, why bother going to all that trouble?' Because the choice was given, and they were always free to make it. God is still omniscient even with giving free will to humans
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11-12-2013, 02:24 PM
RE: God and Free Will!
There are several denominations that don't believe in free will.

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11-12-2013, 02:30 PM
RE: God and Free Will!
(11-12-2013 02:18 PM)Yasmin Wrote:  Knowledge of a choice doesn't mean determination of that choice. This came up on another thread but also related to prayer and actions- if God knows, why bother asking or doing?
So you MAY know that when you ask God answers.

(11-12-2013 02:18 PM)Yasmin Wrote:  Look, for example, at the prophet Jeremiah. God says to him 'the people have turned away from me, so you're going to preach my word to them for 40 years. Your life will be in danger, they will hate you for it, and at the end of 40 years no one would have listened. You could ask in relation to free will, 'if God knew no one would listen anyway, why bother going to all that trouble?' Because the choice was given, and they were always free to make it. God is still omniscient even with giving free will to humans
I will tell you why. When day to judge those people comes they won't accuse God: "Oh, we had no idea that this is what we were suppose to do. So now you can not blame us for being ignorant".
God gives knowledge/info and only then He can judge people.

If mother never told her child not to draw on the walls with crayons and one day child drew on the walls with the crayon mother can not punish child. But if mother gave instruction first and child didn't obey only then she can judge/punish.

English is not my native language.
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