God and Free Will!
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12-12-2013, 01:01 PM
RE: God and Free Will!
(12-12-2013 12:52 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Did you read the OP? No discussion of morals at all...
It's implied, or should be. People argue this point nowadays and don't even understand why. If morality and judgment aren't issues, then the response to the charge that omniscience precludes free will is simply, "So what?"
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12-12-2013, 01:19 PM
RE: God and Free Will!
(12-12-2013 01:01 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(12-12-2013 12:52 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Did you read the OP? No discussion of morals at all...
It's implied, or should be. People argue this point nowadays and don't even understand why. If morality and judgment aren't issues, then the response to the charge that omniscience precludes free will is simply, "So what?"
"So what?" is just your opinion. The question is it possible for there to be free will if a being knows all the outcomes beforehand. No morality is needed in that discussion and plenty of people find that interesting in it's own right just for the philosophical aspect. The moral implications are certainly significant and related, but nevertheless it's a different discussion.

Forest ...... Trees

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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12-12-2013, 01:43 PM
RE: God and Free Will!
(12-12-2013 01:19 PM)Impulse Wrote:  opinion. The question is it possible for there to be free will if a being knows all the outcomes beforehand. No morality is needed in that discussion and plenty of people find that interesting in it's own right just for the philosophical aspect. The moral implications are certainly significant and related, but nevertheless it's a different discussion.

Forest ...... Trees
A couple people brought morality into it and it is in the isms section, not philosophy. That said - fair enough, point taken.

I'd say it depends on definitions. With a PAP outcomes-based definition, free will may not be possible. With a process-based definition, it is possible. The evil neurosurgeon scenario is interesting - the outcome is known in advance, yet the subject seems to have free will.
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12-12-2013, 07:07 PM
RE: God and Free Will!
(12-12-2013 12:50 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(12-12-2013 12:22 AM)Lion IRC Wrote:  God doesnt NEED to know what will (or might) happen tomorrow. Why would He, of all people, need to worry about what might occur tomorrow or the day after....?
People? Hmm, Freudian slip... Big Grin

No.
God is a personal being.
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13-12-2013, 01:09 PM
RE: God and Free Will!
(12-12-2013 07:07 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  No.
God is a personal being fable.

Fixed. Thumbsup

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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13-12-2013, 01:56 PM
RE: God and Free Will!
Knowledge of an event, before or either after it happens, doesn't change the fact that choices were made.

This universe can only unfold one way, but the choices we make determine how it unfolds.

I am going to back to bed in 30 minutes because I don't feel well. A slight cold coming on, sore throat, etc.
All of you now know what is going to happen. Does that knowledge that you now have impact my ability to make the choice ?

No, my ability to make choices will remain in tact regardless of who knows.
People in the future know the choices I made and those choices are set in stone from the futures perspective, but for me in the present, they aren't.

I drive the chisel that shapes the stone.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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13-12-2013, 04:20 PM
RE: God and Free Will!
(13-12-2013 01:56 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  This universe can only unfold one way, but the choices we make determine how it unfolds.
Please tell me that you can see why this sentence is self-contradictory.
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13-12-2013, 04:23 PM
RE: God and Free Will!
(13-12-2013 04:20 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(13-12-2013 01:56 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  This universe can only unfold one way, but the choices we make determine how it unfolds.
Please tell me that you can see why this sentence is self-contradictory.

Paleophyte - I am seriously starting to watch for your posts LOL.
You're quite surgical at times and it's a pleasure to watch you at work!ThumbsupThumbsup

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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