God bless the second amendment
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11-02-2014, 03:51 AM
RE: God bless the second amendment
An absolutely ridiculous video, for reasons already posted.

In my experience twice, has carrying a gun, neutralized threats that could have escalated.
(No one got shot. The stories themselves would come across as too "internetty", so I won't bother with details.)
Though hard statistics are difficult to acquire, it is accepted that gun ownership saves lives far more often than is ever reported.

I work for Sturm Ruger, and nothing is as good for business as having the over-the-top gun grabbers and their elected representatives, propose "gun control".

Thanks to Barry & Co., we can't make them fast enough.
Averaging 60hr work weeks and quarterly bonuses.

So....I strongly encourage more crazy videos.
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11-02-2014, 05:09 AM
RE: God bless the second amendment
I've never understood the need for the second amendment or the culture that seems to surround guns. I sometimes wonder if the rarely mentioned third amendment puts the mindset of the writers of the second amendment into context.

The defense against tyranny argument seems a bit ridiculous as well. Countless countries have strict gun control without descending into dictatorships. I don't see America as any different.
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11-02-2014, 09:58 AM
RE: God bless the second amendment
(11-02-2014 05:09 AM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  I've never understood the need for the second amendment or the culture that seems to surround guns. I sometimes wonder if the rarely mentioned third amendment puts the mindset of the writers of the second amendment into context.

The defense against tyranny argument seems a bit ridiculous as well. Countless countries have strict gun control without descending into dictatorships. I don't see America as any different.

It's purpose is to ensure that states can defend themselves independent of the federal government, by calling forth an armed citizenry if necessary. Whether or not this is necessary in the modern age is certainly questionable, but states do *still* have that right.

Societies have fallen apart before, including world empires, and really, it's more a matter of 'when' than 'if', if we allow history to be our guide. Though probably not anytime soon, the 2nd Amendment will likely be activated at some point in the distant future.

But beyond merely the militia argument, those who founded the US believed that only a tyrannical government would want to disarm its citizens, so enshrining the right to have and bear arms would never be controversial. The fact that the 2nd Amendment is constantly being challenged, even though there is never talk of repealing it, proves the wisdom of the founders on this point.

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11-02-2014, 10:14 AM
RE: God bless the second amendment
(11-02-2014 09:58 AM)toadaly Wrote:  It's purpose is to ensure that states can defend themselves independent of the federal government, by calling forth an armed citizenry if necessary. Whether or not this is necessary in the modern age is certainly questionable, but states do *still* have that right.

Really? States have the right to declare war? Could Texas or Arizona invade Mexico if it felt threatened?

Quote:Societies have fallen apart before, including world empires, and really, it's more a matter of 'when' than 'if', if we allow history to be our guide. Though probably not anytime soon, the 2nd Amendment will likely be activated at some point in the distant future.

Governments fall, empires fail but that doesn't mean societies have to fall apart as political change doesn't mean societal collapse. Besides, adding a huge number of guns into the mix is never a good idea if you're trying to reduce anarchy.

Quote:But beyond merely the militia argument, those who founded the US believed that only a tyrannical government would want to disarm its citizens, so enshrining the right to have and bear arms would never be controversial. The fact that the 2nd Amendment is constantly being challenged, even though there is never talk of repealing it, proves the wisdom of the founders on this point.

I know a lot of people who want to repeal the second amendment but the NRA would set out to destroy any public figure that even suggested it.

The second amendment is a product of its time. I've never understood why some people think eighteenth century land owners and slavers are the best people to tell them how to live today.
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11-02-2014, 10:17 AM
RE: God bless the second amendment
(11-02-2014 09:58 AM)toadaly Wrote:  
(11-02-2014 05:09 AM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  I've never understood the need for the second amendment or the culture that seems to surround guns. I sometimes wonder if the rarely mentioned third amendment puts the mindset of the writers of the second amendment into context.

The defense against tyranny argument seems a bit ridiculous as well. Countless countries have strict gun control without descending into dictatorships. I don't see America as any different.

It's purpose is to ensure that states can defend themselves independent of the federal government, by calling forth an armed citizenry if necessary. Whether or not this is necessary in the modern age is certainly questionable, but states do *still* have that right.

Societies have fallen apart before, including world empires, and really, it's more a matter of 'when' than 'if', if we allow history to be our guide. Though probably not anytime soon, the 2nd Amendment will likely be activated at some point in the distant future.

But beyond merely the militia argument, those who founded the US believed that only a tyrannical government would want to disarm its citizens, so enshrining the right to have and bear arms would never be controversial. The fact that the 2nd Amendment is constantly being challenged, even though there is never talk of repealing it, proves the wisdom of the founders on this point.

You're kidding right? First off that is not what the second amendment was intended to be. It was codifying a right to form a militia not a person stockpile of weapons. Secondly every civilized country in the world either severely restricts access to weapons or requires intense training and personal responsibility, so saying that only a tyrannical dictatorship would seek to limit civilian access to heavy ordnance is insane.

The reason it is not being repealed is because trying to do so is a monumental task that requires almost universal support, something the gun debate does not have. If anything it shows a lack of foresight by the founders in not thinking about advances in weapons tech. Single shot smooth bore muskets to high powered riffles that can hit a target a mile away happened in just about 200 years. The fact that they allowed no room for advancement in the wording of the amendment has left us with what is now chaos. Then there is the fact that what is needed for half the country is in direct conflict with what the other half needs.

In the cities there is no need for weapons at all in fact the sheer amount of them is a hazard. But there are still places in this country where you need a gun of some kind because there are still bears. What is needed for one does not work for the other but one side can do nothing for it's problem and the other fights even common sense changes like background checks.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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11-02-2014, 11:32 AM
RE: God bless the second amendment
Quote:Firearms are an absolutely necessary part to living in America, because the government is becoming more tyrannical and police-esque every single day.

Oh, horseshit.

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11-02-2014, 12:16 PM
RE: God bless the second amendment
(11-02-2014 09:58 AM)toadaly Wrote:  But beyond merely the militia argument, those who founded the US believed that only a tyrannical government would want to disarm its citizens, so enshrining the right to have and bear arms would never be controversial. The fact that the 2nd Amendment is constantly being challenged, even though there is never talk of repealing it, proves the wisdom of the founders on this point.

The hidden assumption being here that the types of weapons the citizenry might own and the types of weapons an actual military might use would not be wildly divergent.

Which they had even then, since the only kind of hunting a 12lb canister shot is good for is injun hunting, but more to the point a bunch of musket armed irregulars can take on a bunch of musket armed regulars.

Small arms aren't nearly so effective against jet fighters, cruise missiles, and main battle tanks.

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11-02-2014, 12:46 PM
RE: God bless the second amendment
(11-02-2014 12:16 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(11-02-2014 09:58 AM)toadaly Wrote:  But beyond merely the militia argument, those who founded the US believed that only a tyrannical government would want to disarm its citizens, so enshrining the right to have and bear arms would never be controversial. The fact that the 2nd Amendment is constantly being challenged, even though there is never talk of repealing it, proves the wisdom of the founders on this point.

The hidden assumption being here that the types of weapons the citizenry might own and the types of weapons an actual military might use would not be wildly divergent.

Which they had even then, since the only kind of hunting a 12lb canister shot is good for is injun hunting, but more to the point a bunch of musket armed irregulars can take on a bunch of musket armed regulars.

Small arms aren't nearly so effective against jet fighters, cruise missiles, and main battle tanks.

Beat me to the punch.

Yes, a group of angry red necks armed to the teeth with assault rifles, shotguns, pistols, snipers and even some small explosives vs the US military.

Hmm, this should be quick...

*click*
*boom*
[what angry red necks?]

Atir aissom atir imon
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11-02-2014, 01:34 PM
RE: God bless the second amendment
(11-02-2014 10:14 AM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  Really? States have the right to declare war? Could Texas or Arizona invade Mexico if it felt threatened?

Did I say states have a right to declare war? I'm sorry, I don't engage people who have an excessive political agenda. Enjoy typing to yourself.

Softly, softly, catchee monkey.
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11-02-2014, 01:41 PM
RE: God bless the second amendment
It's unfortunate that this is necessary:

US Constitution Wrote:Article 1, section 8
{The Congress shall have Power }
15. To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

16. To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress

Article 2, section 2
1. The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States;

Second Amendment:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The context is clear. The purpose of a Militia is the defense of the States, to include defense of all the states.

Softly, softly, catchee monkey.
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