God bless the second amendment
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12-02-2014, 07:57 PM
RE: God bless the second amendment
(11-02-2014 11:50 PM)toadaly Wrote:  
(11-02-2014 08:14 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  Hmmm....I'd like to cut to the chase here. Do you mean a Kenyan muslim?

That wasn't what I had in mind. Let's try not to be obnoxious assuming assholes, 'k? Consider

Sorry but I've heard far too much of that kind of bullshit before. You were given a chance to deny it and you did. I will take you at your word.

For now.

Angel

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12-02-2014, 10:45 PM
RE: God bless the second amendment
(12-02-2014 02:10 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(09-02-2014 06:49 AM)BrokenQuill92 Wrote:  



http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/01...shootings/

Gun control is not a solution. Bad guys will always get guns and shoot innocent people.
Bomb control is not a solution. Bad guys will always get bombs and kill innocent people.
Does that logic still sound as good? Consider

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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12-02-2014, 11:07 PM
RE: God bless the second amendment
My 2 cents:

The 2nd Amendment no longer applies as some people have already pointed out in this thread. Times have changed and it needs to be revised.

Yes, criminals will continue to get guns and that's a real threat, but that's also why we have police officers who are properly trained to use them (not just in firing and aiming, but in when to use them and when not to). I realize the police can't be everywhere so I'm not opposed to some people owning pistols for self defense, but anything higher (e.g., semi-automatics) is overkill and unnecessary.

Furthermore, even as self-defense, guns are dangerous. Criminals may get to the gun first. Alternatively, people may freeze when put in a self-defense situation and criminals may take their gun from them and use it against them.

In the meantime, the more guns there are out there, the more likely it is that some idiots will leave them laying around where their kids can pick them up (as has happened too many times already). So there needs to be stricter laws and penalties regarding keeping guns locked up. And the more guns there are, the more accidents occur which happens far more often than many people know.

Finally, not just anyone should be allowed to own a gun. There should be far more strict requirements for gun ownership. Things like gun show loopholes need to be closed. There should maybe even be psychological testing required. There should always be a waiting period to stop the impulsive buyers who buy out of anger for revenge and who might cool off with a little time. There is more to gun control than just banning certain guns.

I do think gun control (not gun banning) as stated above is an important factor in the solution. Yeah, people will find other ways to kill, but there is nothing as easy as guns. Guns are legal and can therefore be kept around without legal worries, are easily concealed, are easy to kill with from a distance, and some are easy for mass killing. Guns are far more likely to be the weapon of choice and of confidence in a spur-of-the-moment decision to kill. Bombs, knives, etc. don't have the same level of convenience, ease-of-use, and likelihood of success all packaged in one weapon.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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12-02-2014, 11:17 PM
RE: God bless the second amendment
(12-02-2014 06:49 PM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  Not really. There are places with strict gun control such as the UK where gun crime is so low the police aren't routinely armed. I grew up in the UK and in all my time there I've only ever seen guns at airports.

...therefor they don't exist? http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/30/ukcrime1

Quote:The second amendment is just a legal construct. If it was the will of the people it'd change. It isn't sacred.

Well sure, but it's a moot point *unless and until* it's changed. Regular legislation simply will not trump it, and there is no 'will of the people' in the US wanting to change that.

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13-02-2014, 04:19 AM
RE: God bless the second amendment
(12-02-2014 11:17 PM)toadaly Wrote:  
(12-02-2014 06:49 PM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  Not really. There are places with strict gun control such as the UK where gun crime is so low the police aren't routinely armed. I grew up in the UK and in all my time there I've only ever seen guns at airports.

...therefor they don't exist? http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/30/ukcrime1

I never said that. I'm not one for false dichotomies.
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13-02-2014, 05:14 AM
RE: God bless the second amendment
(12-02-2014 02:10 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(09-02-2014 06:49 AM)BrokenQuill92 Wrote:  



http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/01...shootings/

Gun control is not a solution. Bad guys will always get guns and shoot innocent people.

I dunno.

Seems to be working pretty damn well here in Australia.

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13-02-2014, 03:25 PM
RE: God bless the second amendment
(09-02-2014 07:44 PM)BrokenQuill92 Wrote:  
(09-02-2014 05:59 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Bq, what are your thoughts about the vid and link you posted?

I'm mostly frustrated and irritated. More and more kids and other civilian lives are being put at risk as gun owners and our government simply stick their fingers in their ears and shout. "Lala Lala LA!!! I can't hear you about gun control!" They refused to fix the problem! The body Count and the injuries grow ever higher. The media either ignores it or puts on a show. And no one is doing anything about it! People are acting as if we're trying to take away their first borns. When all we're asking them to do is take more safety measures because what is happening right now is not WORKING. It's like they don't get that unless you're crazy or a criminal nobody wants your fucking guns. And no matter what excuses you make you don't need ten.

I would take it that you don't own guns, BQ. I'd also venture to say that you have neither shot them or have very little experience with them.

The comment "More and more kids and other civilian lives are being put at risk as gun owners and our government simply stick their fingers in their ears and shout. 'Lala Lala LA!!! I can't hear you about gun control!'" seemst to me that you blame people like myself for gun violence and gun accidents. We're not the problem. Actually gun crimes have dropped in recent times and mass shootings, though horrific, represent a trivial danger to the public health as opposed to, say, heart disease, which kills 40,000 Americans every year. Gun accidents are very infrequent as well. There are only about 50 or so youths accidentally killed by guns (the inflated numbers are generated by the Brady Center, which inflates this figure by adding teenagers who commit murder with guns or youth suicides by firearm.)

I'm not opposed to certain types of gun control but approach the subject skeptically and many kinds of gun control don't work worth a damn (ex. bans on 'assault weapons', microstamping, etc.). If you want to reduce gun crimes, you need to develop laws that specifically target criminals as opposed to gun owners who don't break the law. I also don't trust a lot of antigun groups, as I think they treat gun owners as if they were criminals. I also think they will propose 'common sense' laws as a stepping stone toward the goal of all out gun bans and permanently restricting the public from possessing guns.

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13-02-2014, 03:43 PM
RE: God bless the second amendment
(12-02-2014 11:07 PM)Impulse Wrote:  My 2 cents:

The 2nd Amendment no longer applies as some people have already pointed out in this thread. Times have changed and it needs to be revised.

It no longer applies because the public drifted away from it as a legitimate deterrent to tyranny. I'd be happy to develop real citizen militias, similar to what they have in Switzerland."

Quote:Yes, criminals will continue to get guns and that's a real threat, but that's also why we have police officers who are properly trained to use them (not just in firing and aiming, but in when to use them and when not to). I realize the police can't be everywhere so I'm not opposed to some people owning pistols for self defense, but anything higher (e.g., semi-automatics) is overkill and unnecessary.

First off, the average police officer's skill with a firearm is appauling. They only receive a few hours of training at the acadamy and the only standard they are held to is a slow fire at a standard silouette target at 7 yards and must achieve a score of 70 or better, which is atrocious. I don't know how many ranges I've been to where cops show up to practice and indiscriminately chuck lead at a target and make groups more akin to a shotgun than anything else.

I own assault rifles and use them for personal protection at home. The idea of overkill, at least with a firearm like that is bullshit. I may not discharge a 30-rd mag into a perpetrator, but it sure is nice to have that and not need than need and not have.

Quote:Furthermore, even as self-defense, guns are dangerous. Criminals may get to the gun first. Alternatively, people may freeze when put in a self-defense situation and criminals may take their gun from them and use it against them.

No weapon is an absolute guarantee of personal safety, but I'd much rather have it and either shoot the guy or die trying than simply stand there and piss myself while the bad guy pumps me full of lead.

Quote: In the meantime, the more guns there are out there, the more likely it is that some idiots will leave them laying around where their kids can pick them up (as has happened too many times already). So there needs to be stricter laws and penalties regarding keeping guns locked up. And the more guns there are, the more accidents occur which happens far more often than many people know.

Agreed, but as I said to BrokenQuill, accidental shootings are a trivial risk if you consider that 400 children drown in buckets annually in the US.

Quote:Finally, not just anyone should be allowed to own a gun. There should be far more strict requirements for gun ownership. Things like gun show loopholes need to be closed. There should maybe even be psychological testing required. There should always be a waiting period to stop the impulsive buyers who buy out of anger for revenge and who might cool off with a little time. There is more to gun control than just banning certain guns.

You should read my post on the creation of an IPL. That would solve a lot of these problems while being minimally intrusive.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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13-02-2014, 03:46 PM
RE: God bless the second amendment
(13-02-2014 03:43 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  Agreed, but as I said to BrokenQuill, accidental shootings are a trivial risk if you consider that 400 children drown in buckets annually in the US.

...which is why I'd like all of you to join me in petitioning Congress for an immediate ban on assault buckets. We could call it the Timmy Law, named after Timmy who fell down the well and drowned in the bucket at the bottom.

Softly, softly, catchee monkey.
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13-02-2014, 03:58 PM
RE: God bless the second amendment
An oldie that never gets old.

Note @ 11 minutes





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