God does endorse slavery
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17-02-2015, 02:12 PM
Sad God does endorse slavery
Neither Jesus nor the apostle Paul, nor any other Biblical figure is recorded as having made any statement in opposition to the institution of slavery. Slavery was very much a part of life in Palestine and in the rest of the Roman Empire during old and New Testament times. (See examples below).

Leviticus 25:44-46 “However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you.  You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land.  You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.  You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. 17 “

Numbers? 31: 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

Why would a God of love endorse treating people as chattel (Leviticus 25:44-46) and promoting the use of women as sex slaves (Numbers 31:17) .

How can sex, which has so many taboos, rules and restrictions in the New Testament, be given such free reign in the Old Testament? It appears that here, God and the Israelites place a high premium on capturing young virgin slaves, Presumably for the purpose of deflowering them (see verse above). And God, far from condemning this practice, actually is the one who orchestrates it. Is this the act of a holy loving god?
Does morality apply to God at all?
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17-02-2015, 02:18 PM
RE: God does endorse slavery
(17-02-2015 02:12 PM)ronb2c Wrote:  Neither Jesus nor the apostle Paul, nor any other Biblical figure is recorded as having made any statement in opposition to the institution of slavery. Slavery was very much a part of life in Palestine and in the rest of the Roman Empire during old and New Testament times. (See examples below).

Leviticus 25:44-46 “However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you.  You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land.  You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.  You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. 17 “

Numbers? 31: 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

Why would a God of love endorse treating people as chattel (Leviticus 25:44-46) and promoting the use of women as sex slaves (Numbers 31:17) .

How can sex, which has so many taboos, rules and restrictions in the New Testament, be given such free reign in the Old Testament? It appears that here, God and the Israelites place a high premium on capturing young virgin slaves, Presumably for the purpose of deflowering them (see verse above). And God, far from condemning this practice, actually is the one who orchestrates it. Is this the act of a holy loving god?
Does morality apply to God at all?

The bible is full of inconsistent with a caring god examples...

GENESIS 19:6- In Sodom, Lot’s home was assaulted by a homosexual mob seeking to have relations with two angels. Lot volunteered his virgin daughters to the crowd, saying "you can do what you like with them" as long as the guests are left alone. After offering his children to be raped, Lot was then appointed by God as worthy of rescue from Sodom’s destruction.

EXODUS 21:20-21 According to God’s law, it was wrong to beat a slave to the point of death. But if the slave survived and got back up within a few days, the beating wasn’t punishable, because the slave was the property of the master. (God endorsed slavery and the beating of slaves.)

EXODUS 32:27 After seeing the golden calf, God commanded the Levites, "Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor." 3,000 were slaughtered, and God was pleased.

LEVITICUS 26:27-29 God threatened hostility, punishing people for their sins "seven times over," making them eat the flesh of their sons and daughters.

NUMBERS 31:17-18 God commanded Moses to kill all of the male Midianite children and "kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."

NUMBERS 31:31-40 God divided the plunder to the soldiers, the priest, the Israelites and for tribute to the Lord. 675,000 sheep, 72,000 cattle, 61,000 donkeys and 32,000 virgin women.

DEUTERONOMY 7:2 God told the Israelites, regarding their enemies, to "destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy."

DEUTERONOMY 20:13-14 God laid down the rules for battle, instructing the slaughter of all of the men. Women, children, livestock and possessions could be taken as "plunder for yourselves."

DEUTERONOMY 20:16 "…in the cities of the nations the LORD your god is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes."

DEUTERONOMY 21:10-13 According to God’s law, if an Israelite soldier was at war with an enemy, and he saw a beautiful woman that he found attractive, he could capture her to be his wife. She must then shave her head, trim her nails and discard the clothing she was wearing when captured. She could mourn her father and mother for a month. If the soldier wasn’t pleased with her for any reason, he could "let her go wherever she wishes."

DEUTERONOMY 28:53 God’s punishment for disobedience included eating "the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the LORD your God has given you."

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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14-03-2015, 05:14 PM
RE: God does endorse slavery
(17-02-2015 02:12 PM)ronb2c Wrote:  Neither Jesus nor the apostle Paul, nor any other Biblical figure is recorded as having made any statement in opposition to the institution of slavery. Slavery was very much a part of life in Palestine and in the rest of the Roman Empire during old and New Testament times. (See examples below).

Leviticus 25:44-46 “However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you.  You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land.  You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.  You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. 17 “

Nowhere in the Bible does it record the Israelites forcing slavery upon people, EXCEPT in the sense of slaves being prisoners of war. Second, I am not too sure whether or not the term "servant" is used interchangeably with "slave" in the Bible, because in Exodus 21:2, it states "If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free without paying anything."

So even the Hebrews were able to own their own people, apparently. The question is whether or not the the slavery was FORCED upon people, and nowhere in the Bible is this the case except for prisoners of war.

(17-02-2015 02:12 PM)ronb2c Wrote:  Numbers? 31: 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

This SPECIFIC case is regarding the Midianites and they had already seduced some of the Israelite men to engage in sexual immorality, as Numbers 25 indicates...and this will include sex with temple prostitutes...so obviously, it is safe to say that the women that had slept with a man, 9 times out of 10 she may have "given it up" at some point in time as a prostitute regarding the worship of Baal..but the women that were virgins obviously didn't participate in such practices..yes, so they were still "vaginally pure" Laugh out load

(17-02-2015 02:12 PM)ronb2c Wrote:  Why would a God of love endorse treating people as chattel (Leviticus 25:44-46) and promoting the use of women as sex slaves (Numbers 31:17) .

First off, no where in the Bible does it state anything about God permitting the Israelites to take any women as "sex slaves". That is what YOU said, not what the Bible says. Second, when it comes to man/woman sexual relations, a man will usually prefer a virgin...a virgin represents purity...so God permitted the Israelites to take the very best of the women, and destroy the rest...the women would have their lives spared and would be integrated into Jewish society, just like any other foreigners.

(17-02-2015 02:12 PM)ronb2c Wrote:  How can sex, which has so many taboos, rules and restrictions in the New Testament, be given such free reign in the Old Testament? It appears that here, God and the Israelites place a high premium on capturing young virgin slaves, Presumably for the purpose of deflowering them (see verse above). And God, far from condemning this practice, actually is the one who orchestrates it. Is this the act of a holy loving god?
Does morality apply to God at all?

Again, God had beef with the Midianites, since their sexual sins involved the worship of pagan God's, God used the sparing of virgins as a way to condemn the wicked and spare the not-so wicked. Second, God is fair...his anger even burned against the men that was seduced by the women...after the Israelite men had indulged in the sexual immorality with the women, what did God tell Moses? Numbers 25:4-5..

"The Lord said to Moses, Take all of the leaders of these people, kill them and expose them in broad daylight before the Lord, so that the Lord's fierce anger may turn away from Israel"

"So Moses said to Israel's judges, Each of you must to to death those of your men who have joined in worshiping the Baal of Peor".
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14-03-2015, 05:41 PM
RE: God does endorse slavery
Which reminds me...

I've been meaning to buy a servant, to serve me for maybe six years.

Does anybody know what a good price would be?

It doesn't have to be top quality or anything just obedient to its master and relatively free of infectious diseases.

Does anyone know of any on-line auction sites?

Dodgy

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14-03-2015, 06:23 PM
RE: God does endorse slavery
(14-03-2015 05:41 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Which reminds me...

I've been meaning to buy a servant, to serve me for maybe six years.

Does anybody know what a good price would be?

It doesn't have to be top quality or anything just obedient to its master and relatively free of infectious diseases.

Does anyone know of any on-line auction sites?

Dodgy

Make sure you buy a male servant, give him a wife and encourage them to produce offspring.
That way you can have servants for life, rather than a measly 6 years.
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14-03-2015, 06:58 PM
RE: God does endorse slavery
(14-03-2015 06:23 PM)pablo Wrote:  
(14-03-2015 05:41 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Which reminds me...

I've been meaning to buy a servant, to serve me for maybe six years.

Does anybody know what a good price would be?

It doesn't have to be top quality or anything just obedient to its master and relatively free of infectious diseases.

Does anyone know of any on-line auction sites?

Dodgy

Make sure you buy a male servant, give him a wife and encourage them to produce offspring.
That way you can have servants for life, rather than a measly 6 years.

Ah yes. I remember reading that somewhere.

The problem with that business model is that I'll have to fund the raising of the servant's offspring. And those little things are so noisy and smelly.

Much better to buy them when they're a bit older ... after they're house-trained, perhaps.

Of course, if I bought a fertile female one ... free lunch!

Evil_monster

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14-03-2015, 09:08 PM
RE: God does endorse slavery
No matter how many omnis one puts in front of a god, he can never not be politically expedient.

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16-03-2015, 03:25 PM
RE: God does endorse slavery
(14-03-2015 05:14 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(17-02-2015 02:12 PM)ronb2c Wrote:  Neither Jesus nor the apostle Paul, nor any other Biblical figure is recorded as having made any statement in opposition to the institution of slavery. Slavery was very much a part of life in Palestine and in the rest of the Roman Empire during old and New Testament times. (See examples below).

Leviticus 25:44-46 “However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you.  You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land.  You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.  You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. 17 “

Nowhere in the Bible does it record the Israelites forcing slavery upon people, EXCEPT in the sense of slaves being prisoners of war. Second, I am not too sure whether or not the term "servant" is used interchangeably with "slave" in the Bible, because in Exodus 21:2, it states "If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free without paying anything."

So even the Hebrews were able to own their own people, apparently. The question is whether or not the the slavery was FORCED upon people, and nowhere in the Bible is this the case except for prisoners of war.

(17-02-2015 02:12 PM)ronb2c Wrote:  Numbers? 31: 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

This SPECIFIC case is regarding the Midianites and they had already seduced some of the Israelite men to engage in sexual immorality, as Numbers 25 indicates...and this will include sex with temple prostitutes...so obviously, it is safe to say that the women that had slept with a man, 9 times out of 10 she may have "given it up" at some point in time as a prostitute regarding the worship of Baal..but the women that were virgins obviously didn't participate in such practices..yes, so they were still "vaginally pure" Laugh out load

(17-02-2015 02:12 PM)ronb2c Wrote:  Why would a God of love endorse treating people as chattel (Leviticus 25:44-46) and promoting the use of women as sex slaves (Numbers 31:17) .

First off, no where in the Bible does it state anything about God permitting the Israelites to take any women as "sex slaves". That is what YOU said, not what the Bible says. Second, when it comes to man/woman sexual relations, a man will usually prefer a virgin...a virgin represents purity...so God permitted the Israelites to take the very best of the women, and destroy the rest...the women would have their lives spared and would be integrated into Jewish society, just like any other foreigners.

(17-02-2015 02:12 PM)ronb2c Wrote:  How can sex, which has so many taboos, rules and restrictions in the New Testament, be given such free reign in the Old Testament? It appears that here, God and the Israelites place a high premium on capturing young virgin slaves, Presumably for the purpose of deflowering them (see verse above). And God, far from condemning this practice, actually is the one who orchestrates it. Is this the act of a holy loving god?
Does morality apply to God at all?

Again, God had beef with the Midianites, since their sexual sins involved the worship of pagan God's, God used the sparing of virgins as a way to condemn the wicked and spare the not-so wicked. Second, God is fair...his anger even burned against the men that was seduced by the women...after the Israelite men had indulged in the sexual immorality with the women, what did God tell Moses? Numbers 25:4-5..

"The Lord said to Moses, Take all of the leaders of these people, kill them and expose them in broad daylight before the Lord, so that the Lord's fierce anger may turn away from Israel"

"So Moses said to Israel's judges, Each of you must to to death those of your men who have joined in worshiping the Baal of Peor".

You do realize oh unlearned one, that moses didn't exist right? I could provide pages upon pages of irrefutable proof, but trying to educate you is like trying to change the ebb and flow of the tides by pissing into the ocean....

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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16-03-2015, 03:27 PM
RE: God does endorse slavery
Slavery was common in most of antiquity even prior to modern monotheism. Polytheism did some of the same things in taking the prisoners of war and women as spoils. It isn't unique to Abrahamic religions.

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17-03-2015, 06:02 AM
RE: God does endorse slavery
(16-03-2015 03:25 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  You do realize oh unlearned one, that moses didn't exist right? I could provide pages upon pages of irrefutable proof, but trying to educate you is like trying to change the ebb and flow of the tides by pissing into the ocean....

Can you point me to these pages? I've heard this before, and I was always curious about the underlying reason.
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