God does endorse slavery
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04-05-2015, 10:44 PM
RE: God does endorse slavery
Why is it that when trying to defend the actions of an all-powerful god, believers lack all imagination?

When not even the sky is the limit, there is no scenario where slavery is the best possible option for a god who can do anything and actually cared to.

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05-05-2015, 06:49 AM
RE: God does endorse slavery
(04-05-2015 10:44 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Why is it that when trying to defend the actions of an all-powerful god, believers lack all imagination?

When not even the sky is the limit, there is no scenario where slavery is the best possible option for a god who can do anything and actually cared to.

Yeah, the "best of all possible worlds" argument posits a god with both vast powers and apparently very large, yet unstated limitations.

It seems it could be restated "Well sure, it looks bad, but I bet it's the best it could be, because I want that to be true.". It is exceptionally ad hoc.
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05-05-2015, 06:54 AM
RE: God does endorse slavery
(04-05-2015 10:44 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  When not even the sky is the limit, there is no scenario where slavery is the best possible option for a god who can do anything and actually cared to.

How about for people who can't do everything?
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05-05-2015, 07:01 AM
RE: God does endorse slavery
(05-05-2015 06:54 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(04-05-2015 10:44 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  When not even the sky is the limit, there is no scenario where slavery is the best possible option for a god who can do anything and actually cared to.

How about for people who can't do everything?

People? Maybe.

A creator god with anything close to omnipotence? Fuck no.

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05-05-2015, 07:02 AM
RE: God does endorse slavery
(04-05-2015 02:34 PM)CleverUsername Wrote:  Again, he's already talking to them and giving them instructions.... And you already posited that the reason he ordered them to rape people was because it was somehow the more humane option.

I never said it was a more humane option. It is what it is, when life is brutish, often times you're left with making brutish decisions, as any episode of the Walking Dead would suggest.

And secondly in the passage in numbers, it was Moses who gave the orders, and he didn't order them to rape people. You're suggesting this is what is being implied behind the lines. But I don't think you have much support for your interpretation. In fact other passages make it abundantly clear that their captives, these woman are not to be treated cruelly, and that you are required to make her your wife, and to be her husband, and allow them to mourn the death of their loved ones.
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05-05-2015, 07:06 AM
RE: God does endorse slavery
(05-05-2015 07:01 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  A creator god with anything close to omnipotence? Fuck no.

Why is that? Why would an omnipotent God be required to make a world that exist any differently, and function any differently than the one we find ourselves in? Where we are sort of left to our own devices?

If our a world was product of omnipotent creator, would we assume than this creator must have been a cruel, vindictive being, some who must hate humanity? Or that he was indifferent to his creation? Created a world, left to function on it's own, got bored of it, and left it.
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05-05-2015, 07:53 AM
RE: God does endorse slavery
(05-05-2015 07:02 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I never said it was a more humane option. It is what it is, when life is brutish, often times you're left with making brutish decisions, as any episode of the Walking Dead would suggest.

And secondly in the passage in numbers, it was Moses who gave the orders, and he didn't order them to rape people. You're suggesting this is what is being implied behind the lines. But I don't think you have much support for your interpretation. In fact other passages make it abundantly clear that their captives, these woman are not to be treated cruelly, and that you are required to make her your wife, and to be her husband, and allow them to mourn the death of their loved ones.

And again you are assuming that these women want to be married and have sex with the men that just killed everyone they ever knew. Why is this such a difficult concept for you to understand?
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05-05-2015, 08:00 AM
RE: God does endorse slavery
(05-05-2015 07:53 AM)Bad Wolf Wrote:  And again you are assuming that these women want to be married and have sex with the men that just killed everyone they ever knew. Why is this such a difficult concept for you to understand?

And you assume that they didn't, that they'd prefer to be left behind.

But either way, I doubt these women were ignorant to the consequences of losing a war, or a battle in ancient civilizations. That they are bound to become the spoils of war, and would likely have imagined a worse fate than whatever the Hebrews had in store for them.

The prospect of being taken in by the Hebrews, as wives, cared for, and provided for, is perhaps not as unappealing as you imagine it would be for them, in consideration of the alternatives.
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05-05-2015, 09:16 AM
RE: God does endorse slavery
(05-05-2015 08:00 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  And you assume that they didn't, that they'd prefer to be left behind.

What the fuck does left behind mean? Why couldn't the winning army just hmmmm... I don't know....leave them alone?

(05-05-2015 08:00 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  But either way, I doubt these women were ignorant to the consequences of losing a war, or a battle in ancient civilizations. That they are bound to become the spoils of war, and would likely have imagined a worse fate than whatever the Hebrews had in store for them.

Their knowledge of what will happen to them if their men lose a battle, is of no relevance whatsoever. Rape is rape.

(05-05-2015 08:00 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  The prospect of being taken in by the Hebrews, as wives, cared for, and provided for, is perhaps not as unappealing as you imagine it would be for them, in consideration of the alternatives.

If the alternative is death, then there isn't really a choice. If I put a gun to your head and tell you to kill someone, it's not really a choice. You don't want to do it, but you also don't want to die. Same goes for these women, they don't want to have sex with these men, but they will get raped because the alternative is death.
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05-05-2015, 10:15 AM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2015 10:26 AM by CleverUsername.)
RE: God does endorse slavery
(05-05-2015 07:02 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I never said it was a more humane option. It is what it is, when life is brutish, often times you're left with making brutish decisions, as any episode of the Walking Dead would suggest.

So then I can only assume bringing up other bad outcomes was meant as a way of saying that everything they could have possibly done sucked equally so they might as well have picked one at random then? That's the only other reason I can think of for possibly bringing it up like that.

And sometimes those horribly brutish decisions are left with you because you already did horrible things. Funny that.

Quote:And secondly in the passage in numbers, it was Moses who gave the orders, and he didn't order them to rape people. You're suggesting this is what is being implied behind the lines. But I don't think you have much support for your interpretation. In fact other passages make it abundantly clear that their captives, these woman are not to be treated cruelly, and that you are required to make her your wife, and to be her husband, and allow them to mourn the death of their loved ones.

Okay, so it's Moses that's the horrible jerkoff in this situation, gotcha.

I love how you seem to think that if rape is somehow not involved in this it's okay (also you said you aren't arguing it was the more human option, but here we are, arguing how horrible it was!). Who the ever living hell would be okay with being force-ably wed to the person that killed their family and kidnapped them, even if it was a celibate marriage?

Popcorn I put more thought into fiction than theists put into reality.
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