God doesn't understand iterative probability
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07-05-2015, 01:28 PM
God doesn't understand iterative probability
I like RPGs (the games, although rocket launchers are cool, too), and one thing I've learned to pay attention to in them is iterative probability. In these games, each challenge you face has a non-zero chance of killing your character. Of course, even if this chance is pretty small, it means that the more challenges you face, the more likely it is your character dies. This is just a fundamental truth of statistics. You cannot get around that without reducing the chance to precisely zero. Otherwise, you have to hope it's low enough that you survive the campaign, hope you get lucky, or be blindly ignorant of how these things work.

Now, apply that to the Garden of Eden.

Genesis posits a physical place where Adam and Eve can hang around doing, presumably anything they want, so long as they don't eat from one tree. Now, I cannot fathom any reason why God needed to put that tree there in the first place. Some may say that God needed to test humanity (why?). Now, if that's the case, the only reason for a test is if there's a chance for failure. If humanity was supposed to stay in the garden, as time went on, the likelihood that someone would eat form that tree would approach near certainty. That's just how these things work.

What did God think was going to happen!?

I mean obviously, this is just one more point showing the absurdity of the myth, but how do apologists reconcile this? They blame free will for all of mankind's faults and refuse to make God culpable for making faulty humans. This situation was engineered by someone who wanted humans to fail or by someone who is woefully inept. That's it. There's no magical third option.
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07-05-2015, 01:42 PM
RE: God doesn't understand iterative probability
(07-05-2015 01:28 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I like RPGs (the games, although rocket launchers are cool, too), and one thing I've learned to pay attention to in them is iterative probability. In these games, each challenge you face has a non-zero chance of killing your character. Of course, even if this chance is pretty small, it means that the more challenges you face, the more likely it is your character dies. This is just a fundamental truth of statistics. You cannot get around that without reducing the chance to precisely zero. Otherwise, you have to hope it's low enough that you survive the campaign, hope you get lucky, or be blindly ignorant of how these things work.

Now, apply that to the Garden of Eden.

Genesis posits a physical place where Adam and Eve can hang around doing, presumably anything they want, so long as they don't eat from one tree. Now, I cannot fathom any reason why God needed to put that tree there in the first place. Some may say that God needed to test humanity (why?). Now, if that's the case, the only reason for a test is if there's a chance for failure. If humanity was supposed to stay in the garden, as time went on, the likelihood that someone would eat form that tree would approach near certainty. That's just how these things work.

What did God think was going to happen!?

I mean obviously, this is just one more point showing the absurdity of the myth, but how do apologists reconcile this? They blame free will for all of mankind's faults and refuse to make God culpable for making faulty humans. This situation was engineered by someone who wanted humans to fail or by someone who is woefully inept. That's it. There's no magical third option.

Well, if the whole thing with Adam and Eve isn't true--then the whole need for Jesus goes out the window--which is one of the main reasons why christians can't believe in evolution. Well, that and evolution basically calls God a liar.
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07-05-2015, 01:43 PM
RE: God doesn't understand iterative probability
What if it wasn't a test of Eve, but rather the snake? Or an experiment to see which silly animal would jump up and volunteer to be the Adversary? Evil_monster

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07-05-2015, 01:45 PM
RE: God doesn't understand iterative probability
(07-05-2015 01:43 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  What if it wasn't a test of Eve, but rather the snake? Or an experiment to see which silly animal would jump up and volunteer to be the Adversary? Evil_monster

I think a talking crocoduck would have been cool...
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07-05-2015, 01:48 PM
RE: God doesn't understand iterative probability
(07-05-2015 01:43 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  What if it wasn't a test of Eve, but rather the snake? Or an experiment to see which silly animal would jump up and volunteer to be the Adversary? Evil_monster

I can take the self debating of mythological characters but why do you have my girlfriend as your avatar? That's moreso disturbing. Big Grin
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07-05-2015, 01:54 PM
RE: God doesn't understand iterative probability
I don't know about apologist but I read interesting interpretation in "Biblia w ręku ateisty" (Bible in the hand of an atheist) by Helen Eilstein. God supposedly planned on human eating from the tree, so they would be capable of reproduction (for which they had only potential before tasting the fruit), for one can not be immortal and fertile at the same time. There is no punishment, only consequences - by eating from the tree Adam and Eve became capable of creating life, and thus they lose their immortality.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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07-05-2015, 02:03 PM
RE: God doesn't understand iterative probability
(07-05-2015 01:54 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  for one can not be immortal and fertile at the same time.

[Citation needed]
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07-05-2015, 02:08 PM
RE: God doesn't understand iterative probability
(07-05-2015 02:03 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(07-05-2015 01:54 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  for one can not be immortal and fertile at the same time.

[Citation needed]

From the book you mean? Or it's about this specific claim? If it's about claim then it is just arbitrary claim to make somewhat interesting interpretation of events, not some factual statement.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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07-05-2015, 02:18 PM
RE: God doesn't understand iterative probability
(07-05-2015 01:54 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I don't know about apologist but I read interesting interpretation in "Biblia w ręku ateisty" (Bible in the hand of an atheist) by Helen Eilstein. God supposedly planned on human eating from the tree, so they would be capable of reproduction (for which they had only potential before tasting the fruit), for one can not be immortal and fertile at the same time. There is no punishment, only consequences - by eating from the tree Adam and Eve became capable of creating life, and thus they lose their immortality.

So why couldn't god make fertile human beings without the Rube Goldberg fruit eating as a condition of procreation?

I presume animals reproduced without any magical fruit eating in this reinterpretation of the myth.

Still problems with that interpretation IMO.....

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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07-05-2015, 02:23 PM
RE: God doesn't understand iterative probability
(07-05-2015 02:18 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(07-05-2015 01:54 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I don't know about apologist but I read interesting interpretation in "Biblia w ręku ateisty" (Bible in the hand of an atheist) by Helen Eilstein. God supposedly planned on human eating from the tree, so they would be capable of reproduction (for which they had only potential before tasting the fruit), for one can not be immortal and fertile at the same time. There is no punishment, only consequences - by eating from the tree Adam and Eve became capable of creating life, and thus they lose their immortality.

So why couldn't god make fertile human beings without the Rube Goldberg fruit eating as a condition of procreation?

I presume animals reproduced without any magical fruit eating in this reinterpretation of the myth.

Still problems with that interpretation IMO.....

Of course there are problems, this interpretation isn't perfect but better from standard one I think.

As for fertile humans who know? Maybe fruit is plot device? Maybe it's myth merging with reality - humans are not immortal but fertile, therefore they must have done something to be that way. And this something is eating the fruit, that made them so.

And if I recall corectly animals become fertile after Adam and Eve eat the fruit.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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