God-guided evolution......
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30-11-2016, 07:51 AM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 11:40 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  
(28-11-2016 10:07 AM)jason197754 Wrote:  How would you respond to someone who believes both in God and in evolution???

What's so outrageous about this? There are more people who believe in both god and evolution than evolution and no god. They're intelligent people living in the modern world endorsing scientific theories while holding their own, independent beliefs about other things not related to science. Why should an atheist give a fuck about this? Most people of this persuasion are our allies in propagating scientific thought and secular practices.

The way I understand the OP. He is talking about God-guided evolution. Not people who believe in God and evolution. There is a distinction. What the OP is talking about is woo and deserves to be put in the same kill zone as the rest of the woo

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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30-11-2016, 08:34 AM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 11:24 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 11:08 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Sure, you're entitled to your opinion. For me personally, I don't really care what people believe as long as they're not pushing it on me, spreading hate, or standing in the way of science.

I'm not a fan of religion either, but one of the things I like about being an atheist is no longer having my church telling me what to do. The last thing I want to do to another person is to tell them how to be, what to think, etc. especially if they are happy in what they are doing, embrace science, and are living a peaceful existence.

I don't care what people believe (when their beliefs don't force them to do some silly shit) but I care about what they tell. I saw statement with which I disagree and which I see as perfect example of religious arrogance so I reacted to it. There is nothing more to it.

Except it wasn't religious arrogance. You're taking one term out of context and running with it--without even bothering to ask me for the article in it's entirety or incorporating that sentence with the rest of the excerpt I posted--instead your're just relying on one sentence to form an opinion. I agree with being diligent with religious groups being arrogant and pushing beliefs on others--but this was not the case here.

And if the statement was meant in an arrogant way, I would 100 percent agree with you. However, in the sentences immediately following (and from the article), it is clear that they are referring to their beliefs as a truth for themselves--something that *they* believe in as a culture. It would be the equivalent of my saying a truth for me in my life is that I enjoy practicing yoga. That is not an arrogant statement. It would be an arrogant statement if I said "Everyone needs to practice yoga because I enjoy it and I said so, so get in full lotus now, bitches." Tongue

Arrogance would be saying this is the only truth for everyone, now you must accept it and act according to our deity or burn in hell for all of eternity. Now sit back and take it while we actively try and push our beliefs and way of life on you (like the Christians do). That is an example of arrogance.

Anyway, you're entitled to your opinion, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Wink
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30-11-2016, 10:38 AM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(30-11-2016 08:34 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 11:24 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I don't care what people believe (when their beliefs don't force them to do some silly shit) but I care about what they tell. I saw statement with which I disagree and which I see as perfect example of religious arrogance so I reacted to it. There is nothing more to it.

Except it wasn't religious arrogance. You're taking one term out of context and running with it--without even bothering to ask me for the article in it's entirety or incorporating that sentence with the rest of the excerpt I posted--instead your're just relying on one sentence to form an opinion. I agree with being diligent with religious groups being arrogant and pushing beliefs on others--but this was not the case here.

And if the statement was meant in an arrogant way, I would 100 percent agree with you. However, in the sentences immediately following (and from the article), it is clear that they are referring to their beliefs as a truth for themselves--something that *they* believe in as a culture. It would be the equivalent of my saying a truth for me in my life is that I enjoy practicing yoga. That is not an arrogant statement. It would be an arrogant statement if I said "Everyone needs to practice yoga because I enjoy it and I said so, so get in full lotus now, bitches." Tongue

Arrogance would be saying this is the only truth for everyone, now you must accept it and act according to our deity or burn in hell for all of eternity. Now sit back and take it while we actively try and push our beliefs and way of life on you (like the Christians do). That is an example of arrogance.

Anyway, you're entitled to your opinion, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Wink

I stand by my previous words so agreeing to disagree is sensible thing to do.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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30-11-2016, 12:09 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(30-11-2016 07:51 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 11:40 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  What's so outrageous about this? There are more people who believe in both god and evolution than evolution and no god. They're intelligent people living in the modern world endorsing scientific theories while holding their own, independent beliefs about other things not related to science. Why should an atheist give a fuck about this? Most people of this persuasion are our allies in propagating scientific thought and secular practices.

The way I understand the OP. He is talking about God-guided evolution. Not people who believe in God and evolution. There is a distinction. What the OP is talking about is woo and deserves to be put in the same kill zone as the rest of the woo

OP failed to make this distinction. The title speaks of god-guided evolution but his post is asking about how to respond to those who believe in both god and evolution. That would suggest he thinks they are the same thing. He might not be far off on that either; "God-guided" evolution seems like a terribly vague description that could encompass a range of different ideas, including those you seem to think separate from your conception of the model.

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17-12-2016, 04:00 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
So much ignorance in this topic...

The only legitimate claim against evolutionary creationism or theistic evolution is what Chas has stated in the past.

Evolution doesn't need God in order to function.

All the other stuff about "no integrity" or the Bible has to be taken literally shows a baffling lack of historical knowledge and parroted ignorance.

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16-01-2017, 09:20 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(28-11-2016 10:14 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I actually love theists like this because they are not standing in the way of science, they have the ability to think rationally, and they don't rely on magic for answers. I tend to just let theists like this be and don't typically debate them. I see no conflict with me in my life since their beliefs are their beliefs and they are not impeding me in any way. People who take the Bible literally are the ones I have an issue with because they want to infringe on other's rights, stand in the way of science, and spread hate and misogyny.

I actually think that 'intelligent design' advocates are even more ridiculous than creationists / people to take the bible literally. ID advocates are indeed making an attempt to reconcile the ridiculous creation story with modern science/discoveries, which in itself is good in concept... But people who attempt to argue that a god (their god, of course) are just attempting gymnastics to dilute the foundation of their belief (the bible / the creation story). It's even more dishonest! What's worse, is that people who don't think to challenge the 'logic' feel better about accepting the ID 'explanation' because they're taking modern science into consideration... AAAHHH! so frustrating!
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16-01-2017, 09:34 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
Most species that have ever existed are extinct.
Their god is an idiot.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-01-2017, 09:36 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
If God has created us in his image, and God has guided evolution, and evolution is largely dependent on a finite lifespan thereby providing opportunities for genetic mutation between generations, does that make God an omnipotent, immortal, single celled organism that has yet to adapt or just one of a race of omnipotent but mortal beings who have evolved alongside us?

'Murican Canadian
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17-01-2017, 05:50 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
If God created us in His image why is there still God?

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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18-01-2017, 04:49 AM
RE: God-guided evolution......
Undefined variables multiply without bound.

living word
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