God-guided evolution......
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18-01-2017, 08:07 AM
RE: God-guided evolution......
Silly. According to the Hebrew Torah animals are "living souls." Genesis 1:20-21.
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18-01-2017, 02:05 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(17-12-2016 04:00 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  So much ignorance in this topic...

The only legitimate claim against evolutionary creationism or theistic evolution is what Chas has stated in the past.

Evolution doesn't need God in order to function.
How is this a claim against a god?

I'm not needed in this world and yet I exist and interact with it.

(17-12-2016 04:00 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  All the other stuff about "no integrity" or the Bible has to be taken literally shows a baffling lack of historical knowledge and parroted ignorance.
The bible is a nonsensical book, there is no definitive way to read the rubbish contained in it. It's all up for interpretation. If it is a message from god then it is a convoluted, confusing and opaque message. Thank god that scientists don't write in parables.
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18-01-2017, 02:20 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(18-01-2017 08:07 AM)Peter Slevon Wrote:  Silly. According to the Hebrew Torah animals are "living souls." Genesis 1:20-21.

How do you arrive at that?
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18-01-2017, 02:45 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(17-01-2017 05:50 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  If God created us in His image why is there still God?

If we evolved from the Primordial Soup, then why is there still soup? Wink

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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19-01-2017, 11:59 AM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(18-01-2017 02:05 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(17-12-2016 04:00 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  So much ignorance in this topic...

The only legitimate claim against evolutionary creationism or theistic evolution is what Chas has stated in the past.

Evolution doesn't need God in order to function.
How is this a claim against a god?

It's not. It is a claim against theistic evolution.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-02-2017, 10:17 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
jason197754 Wrote:How would you respond to someone who believes both in God and in evolution???
I believe in both.
But I don't believe anybody can respond to me

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25-02-2017, 10:23 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
jason197754 Wrote:How would you respond to someone who believes both in God and in evolution???


I'd say he did a piss poor job.
Elephants have evolved a system 50 times better than humans to fight cancer.
http://www.livescience.com/52432-elephan...tance.html
What ? Jebus couldn't give that to those "made in his image".

Facepalm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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25-02-2017, 11:53 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
jason197754 Wrote:How would you respond to someone who believes both in God and in evolution???

Think about the monkey-humans we used to be. If you believe in both evolution and God, then we can already assume you don't take the Bible literally. So, make 100% of the Bible metaphor. Now you have to invent a story that aligns the Biblical metaphor with the story of evolution. That story could describe monkey-humans who one day wake up with the conscious ability to know God. This could be your new Adam and Eve.

This might work for you, but you have to admit that it's a story you made up. You might start to wonder if the many creation stories found in each of the world religions were also stories someone made up.

There's another issue with theistic evolution and Christian theology. In Christianity, death is the consequence of mankind's sin. In the theory of evolution, death is the mechanism of creation. So which is it? Did man somehow reject God in order to be created in the first place?
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26-02-2017, 09:05 AM
RE: God-guided evolution......
port_of_call Wrote:If you believe in both evolution and God, then we can already assume you don't take the Bible literally. So, make 100% of the Bible metaphor.
The whole Bible? Not necessarily. It is still possible that something can be taken literally, something can be taken metaphorically.
But if we talk about creation story then again. It can be both.

port_of_call Wrote:Now you have to invent a story that aligns the Biblical metaphor with the story of evolution. That story could describe monkey-humans who one day wake up with the conscious ability to know God. This could be your new Adam and Eve.
Oh, you don't have to invent any story at all. I like this option a lot.

port_of_call Wrote:This might work for you, but you have to admit that it's a story you made up
I agree

port_of_call Wrote:There's another issue with theistic evolution and Christian theology. In Christianity, death is the consequence of mankind's sin. In the theory of evolution, death is the mechanism of creation. So which is it?
It can be both. Depends on this: did God talk about spiritual death or physical death? God said Adam would die the same day. Does word "day" = 24 hours? Did Adam die within 24 hours?
So, I can believe in God, in Genesis creation story and in evolution. But there are gaps in creation story meaning there are gaps in the book of Genesis, and there are gaps in evolution theory.

port_of_call Wrote:Did man somehow reject God in order to be created in the first place?
It could be. I believe it is very, very possible. Adam could exist long before his physical body was created and he could choose to obey or to disobey God.

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26-02-2017, 09:22 AM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(26-02-2017 09:05 AM)Alla Wrote:  
port_of_call Wrote:If you believe in both evolution and God, then we can already assume you don't take the Bible literally. So, make 100% of the Bible metaphor.
The whole Bible? Not necessarily. It is still possible that something can be taken literally, something can be taken metaphorically.
Yes, the question for any given follower of a holy book is where and when to draw that line. How do you decide what's to be taken literally vs metaphorically? Fundamentalists usually go on and on about CONTEXT. They accuse people (now and then, even rightly) of naively lifting version out of their beloved context and "taking them out of context" and thus getting the supposedly intended literal or metaphorical meaning wrong.

The problem of course is that even if you take a passage as a whole, they are going to presume to tell you about broader contexts such as how the passage fits into the book and into the Bible as a whole, how it has been interpreted by venerated authorities over time and so forth, and now you are suddenly at the mercy of all their theological and interpretive presuppositions and to multiple appeals to authority and tradition. In that funhouse hall of mirrors that they want to confine you to, where they control the presentation, they always win and you always lose. Now they can claim that you can't possibly understand scripture "correctly" because of your unwillingness to accept the authoritarian, presuppositionalist underpinnings of their "thinking". You "refuse" to make the required "leap of faith", to make a lifelong study of scriptures (under their interpretive system of course) a priority, and therefore, have no standing. You haven't "tasted, and seen that the Lord is good".

So ... increasingly in recent years my emphasis as been on the BASIS of their teachings, not the substance of them. The basis is grounded in the utterly failed epistemology of religious faith, and therefore anything built upon it is invalid. You have to demand substantiation before you afford belief; this, they cannot provide.
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