God-guided evolution......
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28-02-2017, 08:00 AM
RE: God-guided evolution......
Creation story is not about science. It was not given to men that they would understand how God creates things.
We also have to remember that mortal men always mess things up. I am talking about original writers of the books of the Bible and I am talking about translators and scribes.
But there are things that are very clear in creation story and EVERY person who reads it understands it correctly.

God has something to do with creation of our earth
Adam and Eve were created in image and likeness of God
Adam and Eve had agency
Adam and Eve made a choice
There were consequences of their choice

We can CHOOSE either to be HAPPY or to be MISERABLE.

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28-02-2017, 08:03 AM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(28-02-2017 07:59 AM)Rik Wrote:  
(28-02-2017 07:41 AM)Alla Wrote:  GOOD NEWS for atheists and for all:

you don't have to understand and accept creation story to be saved from hell.
you don't have to do anything to be saved from hell
and you can NOT do anything to be saved from hell.

I see, you're actually a Calvinist.
no, no, no
not even close

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28-02-2017, 08:04 AM
RE: God-guided evolution......
Life is rather more complicated than that. Some people never get the chance to be happy. Those who fall into suicidal depression can experience no happiness at all for long periods, just the desire to die. I should know. No amount of choosing could have made me happy. All I could do was endure, and hope things eventually improved. Luckily for me, they did. But I damn near did myself in.

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28-02-2017, 08:23 AM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(28-02-2017 08:03 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(28-02-2017 07:59 AM)Rik Wrote:  I see, you're actually a Calvinist.
no, no, no
not even close

Your statements above are what a Calvinist would say, so you are very close.
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28-02-2017, 08:36 AM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(28-02-2017 07:41 AM)Alla Wrote:  GOOD NEWS for atheists and for all:

you don't have to understand and accept creation story to be saved from hell.
you don't have to do anything to be saved from hell
and you can NOT do anything to be saved from hell.

I am not interested in fake news, good or bad ones. There is just too many out there (particularly since Trumps reign). So why again should i believe anything you say?

Ah...yeah, voices in your head.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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28-02-2017, 08:49 AM
RE: God-guided evolution......
Well, if someone's sending me to hell and there's nothing I can do to stop it, the last thing I'm going to do is worship them.

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28-02-2017, 08:58 AM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(28-02-2017 08:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  Creation story is not about science. It was not given to men that they would understand how God creates things.

Which creation story? Different cultures have different creation stories.

(28-02-2017 08:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  We also have to remember that mortal men always mess things up. I am talking about original writers of the books of the Bible and I am talking about translators and scribes.

An omnipotent god should have taken that into account.

(28-02-2017 08:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  But there are things that are very clear in creation story and EVERY person who reads it understands it correctly.

Which Creation story?

Quote:Enûma Eliš (Babylonian)
Jamshid
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Unkulunkulu (Zulu)
Yoruba
Kabezya-Mpungu
Heliopolis
Fon
Kaang (Bushmen)
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Mbombo (Kuba, Bakuba or Bushongo/Boshongo)
Ngai (Kamba, Kikuyu and Maasai )
Serer (Senegal/Gambia/Mauritania)
Coatlicue (Aztec)
Mayan
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Anishinaabeg
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Choctaw
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Hopi
Kuterastan (Plains Apache)
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Legend of Trentren Vilu and Caicai Vilu (Chilean)
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Au Co (Vietnamese)
Cheonjiwang Bonpuli (Korean)
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Japanese creation myth
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Ajativada
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Jainism and non-creationism (India)
Mimamsa eternalism (India)
Nyaya-Vaisheshika atomic theory (India)
Samkhya-yoga theory (India)
Greek cosmogonical myth
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Völuspá (Norse)
Raelian (French)
Genesis (Hebrew)
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Ainulindalë (Tolkien)

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(28-02-2017 08:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  God has something to do with creation of our earth

First prove he exists, then prove he created the earth.

(28-02-2017 08:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  Adam and Eve were created in image and likeness of God

Your god is a poorly evolved primate?

(28-02-2017 08:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  Adam and Eve had agency
Adam and Eve made a choice
There were consequences of their choice

And those consequences would be theirs, not mine.
I refuse to be held accountable for someone else's actions, be they good or bad.

Even worse, an omniscient god would have known in advance what they would do, yet he still put them in the situation. So he wanted them to "sin" and wanted to punish them.

And what kind of parent banishes children for breaking a rule? Think about that for a minute. Loving god? I don't think so.

(28-02-2017 08:00 AM)Alla Wrote:  We can CHOOSE either to be HAPPY or to be MISERABLE.

That is an over-simplification. Personal outlook can be overridden by brain chemistry (i.e. depression) and external factors. Tell that to the Syrian refugees.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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28-02-2017, 09:26 AM
RE: God-guided evolution......
Robvalue Wrote:All I could do was ENDURE, and HOPE things eventually improved.
Apostol Paul:"we ENDURE all things, we HOPE for all things"
About depression:
First, thank you for sharing this information about yourself. I HOPE you always stay strong enough to ENDURE.
Second, what do YOU usually do to help yourself with depression? and another question, what can YOU do to help yourself with depression?
There is a reason why I ask these questions. I want you to understand my answer to you. The answer was: "we have to be saved from hell"

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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28-02-2017, 09:27 AM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(28-02-2017 08:36 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  I am not interested in fake news,
Thumbsup this is good one

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28-02-2017, 09:29 AM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(28-02-2017 07:41 AM)Alla Wrote:  GOOD NEWS for atheists and for all:

you don't have to understand and accept creation story to be saved from hell.
you don't have to do anything to be saved from hell
and you can NOT do anything to be saved from hell.

Alla, here's a tip, instead of asserting we don't understand the creation story, acknowledge that we understand it quite well and that we have come to very different conclusions about what it means.

Also understand the weight of scientific evidence goes against it's reality, it is unquestionably metaphorical, at some level every person who reads Genesis is compelled to accept at least some elements as metaphorical. (day=age for example)

To an atheist, this is a damning indictment as to the reality of the basic god concepts that are derived from such mythology, there is no way to recover it from the realm of mythology and interpretive metaphor.

To the believer, this is license to interpret it in such a way as to make it seem plausible to them individually or within the context of the particular religious views they hold to be true.

I'm not sure I can illustrate how deep this chasm is between these two views, I will simply state that you might as well try jumping off the edge of the Grand Canyon and flapping your arms to get to the other side.

[Image: grandcanyon1.jpg]

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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