God-guided evolution......
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29-11-2016, 04:56 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 04:50 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 04:43 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  @Aliza

You don't get to call your myths true and expect that everyone will accept it. I care not for your religion but that does not mean I won't speak against things that sounds bad to me.

My beef is with specific quote not Judaism in general, even if I despise religion.

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But they don't expect everyone to accept their beliefs. Their beliefs are what they follow *within their own culture.* And Aliza also said that they will often readjust their beliefs to fit into science and the modern world, as Judaism is a religion that was meant to grow with the times.

They don't expect everyone to follow their beliefs? That's good. Still their beliefs aren't truth*.


*Yes, yes spiritual truth whatever that means.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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29-11-2016, 05:01 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 04:53 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 04:50 PM)jennybee Wrote:  But you took the quote out of context.
If you say so.

Divining The Truth from "Holy Texts" or proclamations of priests never was something that I were good in.

They go out of their way in the article to say this is not history. This is a book of (a) or *our* truth--meaning a book of our legacy, of our culture.

So right out of the gate, they say this is not an account of history--this is an account of *our* culture, of *our* heritage, of *our* truth (i.e what we as a Jewish people believe). As such, the word "truth" is used in terms of the Jewish belief system as it pertains *to them."
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29-11-2016, 05:03 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 04:56 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 04:50 PM)jennybee Wrote:  But they don't expect everyone to accept their beliefs. Their beliefs are what they follow *within their own culture.* And Aliza also said that they will often readjust their beliefs to fit into science and the modern world, as Judaism is a religion that was meant to grow with the times.

They don't expect everyone to follow their beliefs? That's good. Still their beliefs aren't truth*.


*Yes, yes spiritual truth whatever that means.

A spiritual truth is also known as a tenet. A tenet is defined as a principle or belief, especially one of the main principles of a religion or philosophy.
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29-11-2016, 05:06 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 05:01 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 04:53 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  If you say so.

Divining The Truth from "Holy Texts" or proclamations of priests never was something that I were good in.

They go out of their way in the article to say this is not history. This is a book of (a) or *our* truth--meaning a book of our legacy, of our culture.


So in short this is book about (among other things) history. Not truth, history.

I don't agree with your interpretation.

Quote: So right out of the gate, they say this is not an account of history--this is an account of *our* culture, of *our* heritage, of *our* truth (i.e what we as a Jewish people believe). As such, the word "truth" is used in terms of the Jewish belief system as it pertains *to them."

For me using the word truth in regard to book of myth smacks of arrogance and wanting to feel special. I already wrote my piece though, no sense in repeating myself.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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29-11-2016, 05:10 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 05:03 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 04:56 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  They don't expect everyone to follow their beliefs? That's good. Still their beliefs aren't truth*.


*Yes, yes spiritual truth whatever that means.

A spiritual truth is also known as a tenet. A tenet is defined as a principle or belief, especially one of the main principles of a religion or philosophy.
For me spiritual truth is just a woo term used to hide pretensions for having the real, non spiritual truth. Like: our book show us The Truth [science happen] well it was just alegory hiding the deeper, underlying truth.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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29-11-2016, 05:16 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 05:06 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 05:01 PM)jennybee Wrote:  They go out of their way in the article to say this is not history. This is a book of (a) or *our* truth--meaning a book of our legacy, of our culture.


So in short this is book about (among other things) history. Not truth, history.

I don't agree with your interpretation.

Quote: So right out of the gate, they say this is not an account of history--this is an account of *our* culture, of *our* heritage, of *our* truth (i.e what we as a Jewish people believe). As such, the word "truth" is used in terms of the Jewish belief system as it pertains *to them."

For me using the word truth in regard to book of myth smacks of arrogance and wanting to feel special. I already wrote my piece though, no sense in repeating myself.

It's not my interpretation, it is what the article says. It's not a history book. Have you read the Torah or the Bible/OT? They are not history books. They have much more to do with the culture of the Jewish people than with anything else.
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29-11-2016, 05:17 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 05:10 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 05:03 PM)jennybee Wrote:  A spiritual truth is also known as a tenet. A tenet is defined as a principle or belief, especially one of the main principles of a religion or philosophy.
For me spiritual truth is just a woo term used to hide pretensions for having the real, non spiritual truth. Like: our book show us The Truth [science happen] well it was just alegory hiding the deeper, underlying truth.

I understand your not liking the word-but people use that word to describe their beliefs.
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29-11-2016, 05:18 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 05:16 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 05:06 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  So in short this is book about (among other things) history. Not truth, history.

I don't agree with your interpretation.


For me using the word truth in regard to book of myth smacks of arrogance and wanting to feel special. I already wrote my piece though, no sense in repeating myself.

It's not my interpretation, it is what the article says. It's not a history book. Have you read the Torah or the Bible/OT? They are not history books. They have much more to do with the culture of the Jewish people than with anything else.

I don't accept the claim that Torah is truth. There isn't much more to say that I didn't already said.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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29-11-2016, 05:19 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 05:17 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 05:10 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  For me spiritual truth is just a woo term used to hide pretensions for having the real, non spiritual truth. Like: our book show us The Truth [science happen] well it was just alegory hiding the deeper, underlying truth.

I understand your not liking the word-but people use that word to describe their beliefs.
It's their right to do so just as it is mine to not agree with such take.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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29-11-2016, 05:20 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 05:18 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 05:16 PM)jennybee Wrote:  It's not my interpretation, it is what the article says. It's not a history book. Have you read the Torah or the Bible/OT? They are not history books. They have much more to do with the culture of the Jewish people than with anything else.

I don't accept the claim that Torah is truth. There isn't much more to say that I didn't already said.

No one (including the Jewish people) said you had to.
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