God-guided evolution......
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29-11-2016, 05:21 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 05:19 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 05:17 PM)jennybee Wrote:  I understand your not liking the word-but people use that word to describe their beliefs.
It's their right to do so just as it is mine to not agree with such take.

Very true. But they never pushed it on you. They use the term truth within their own belief system and for themselves.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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29-11-2016, 05:22 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 05:20 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 05:18 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I don't accept the claim that Torah is truth. There isn't much more to say that I didn't already said.

No one (including the Jewish people) said you had to.

That's gracious of them.

I think it would be best if we agree to disagree on this subject.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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29-11-2016, 05:24 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 05:10 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 05:03 PM)jennybee Wrote:  A spiritual truth is also known as a tenet. A tenet is defined as a principle or belief, especially one of the main principles of a religion or philosophy.
For me spiritual truth is just a woo term used to hide pretensions for having the real, non spiritual truth. Like: our book show us The Truth [science happen] well it was just alegory hiding the deeper, underlying truth.

This I find more problematic than straight up creationism. It has far more capacity for preventing a follower from ever seeing the error of their ways "because there is scientific evidence for it".

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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29-11-2016, 05:25 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 05:21 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 05:19 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  It's their right to do so just as it is mine to not agree with such take.

Very true. But they never pushed it on you. They use the term truth within their own belief system and for themselves.

It still does not mean that I can't criticize such use of word. From where I stand no religion is even close to truth as deception is core of it.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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29-11-2016, 05:28 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 05:24 PM)tomilay Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 05:10 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  For me spiritual truth is just a woo term used to hide pretensions for having the real, non spiritual truth. Like: our book show us The Truth [science happen] well it was just alegory hiding the deeper, underlying truth.

This I find more problematic than straight up creationism. It has far more capacity for preventing a follower from ever seeing the error of their ways "because there is scientific evidence for it".

Exactly.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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29-11-2016, 05:47 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 05:25 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 05:21 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Very true. But they never pushed it on you. They use the term truth within their own belief system and for themselves.

It still does not mean that I can't criticize such use of word. From where I stand no religion is even close to truth as deception is core of it.

Sure you can criticize whatever you wish. I was just making the distinction between Christianity--which actively tries to push their truths on others--and Judaism, which does not. I prefer to put my effort towards groups which actively try and push their beliefs onto others, stand in the way of science, and spread hate.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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29-11-2016, 05:54 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 05:24 PM)tomilay Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 05:10 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  For me spiritual truth is just a woo term used to hide pretensions for having the real, non spiritual truth. Like: our book show us The Truth [science happen] well it was just alegory hiding the deeper, underlying truth.

This I find more problematic than straight up creationism. It has far more capacity for preventing a follower from ever seeing the error of their ways "because there is scientific evidence for it".

So you have more of an issue with a theist who accepts scientific explanations over a creationist who does not? The theist who accepts scientific explanations, yet still holds onto their spiritual beliefs is not impeding science. Even if they never see the "error of their ways," they are not hurting anyone.

The creationist, on the other hand, has no desire to see the error of their ways because the Bible is the literal word of God, so it doesn't matter what science has to say. Those people are scary because they try and infiltrate schools and raise generations of people who are anti-science.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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29-11-2016, 06:02 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 05:54 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 05:24 PM)tomilay Wrote:  This I find more problematic than straight up creationism. It has far more capacity for preventing a follower from ever seeing the error of their ways "because there is scientific evidence for it".

So you have more of an issue with a theist who accepts scientific explanations over a creationist who does not? The theist who accepts scientific explanations, yet still holds onto their spiritual beliefs is not impeding science. Even if they never see the "error of their ways," they are not hurting anyone.

The creationist, on the other hand, has no desire to see the error of their ways because the Bible is the literal word of God, so it doesn't matter what science has to say. Those people are scary because they try and infiltrate schools and raise generations of people who are anti-science.

And they try to pass laws to force their views onto you. But hey! I'm the real danger to society because I might be wrong about the things I think.
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29-11-2016, 06:05 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 05:54 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 05:24 PM)tomilay Wrote:  This I find more problematic than straight up creationism. It has far more capacity for preventing a follower from ever seeing the error of their ways "because there is scientific evidence for it".

So you have more of an issue with a theist who accepts scientific explanations over a creationist who does not? The theist who accepts scientific explanations, yet still holds onto their spiritual beliefs is not impeding science. Even if they never see the "error of their ways," they are not hurting anyone.

The creationist, on the other hand, has no desire to see the error of their ways because the Bible is the literal word of God, so it doesn't matter what science has to say. Those people are scary because they try and infiltrate schools and raise generations of people who are anti-science.

I understand your concern with the creationist. And I don't dispute it either. However, in a world with increasing education, he is not likely to convert many people. What they see is what they get - and increasingly it is obvious these guys are an anachronism or just plain nuts.

The other type is a bit more stealthy. With greater potential for long term damage and staying power. on impressionable minds. They employ the tools of science to perpetuate a myth.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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29-11-2016, 06:09 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 06:05 PM)tomilay Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 05:54 PM)jennybee Wrote:  So you have more of an issue with a theist who accepts scientific explanations over a creationist who does not? The theist who accepts scientific explanations, yet still holds onto their spiritual beliefs is not impeding science. Even if they never see the "error of their ways," they are not hurting anyone.

The creationist, on the other hand, has no desire to see the error of their ways because the Bible is the literal word of God, so it doesn't matter what science has to say. Those people are scary because they try and infiltrate schools and raise generations of people who are anti-science.

I understand your concern with the creationist. And I don't dispute it either. However, in a world with increasing education, he is not likely to convert many people. What they see is what they get - and increasingly it is obvious these guys are an anachronism or just plain nuts.

The other type is a bit more stealthy. With greater potential for long term damage and staying power. on impressionable minds. They employ the tools of science to perpetuate a myth.

Creationists employ their own mock scientists who actually go against mainstream scientific research, which is scary enough in itself. Creationists raise more creationists who raise more creationists and since they follow the Bible, many creationist women are pumping out babies because they don't believe in birth control.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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