God-guided evolution......
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29-11-2016, 06:11 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 06:02 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 05:54 PM)jennybee Wrote:  So you have more of an issue with a theist who accepts scientific explanations over a creationist who does not? The theist who accepts scientific explanations, yet still holds onto their spiritual beliefs is not impeding science. Even if they never see the "error of their ways," they are not hurting anyone.

The creationist, on the other hand, has no desire to see the error of their ways because the Bible is the literal word of God, so it doesn't matter what science has to say. Those people are scary because they try and infiltrate schools and raise generations of people who are anti-science.

And they try to pass laws to force their views onto you. But hey! I'm the real danger to society because I might be wrong about the things I think.

Yup that too.
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29-11-2016, 06:34 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 06:09 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 06:05 PM)tomilay Wrote:  I understand your concern with the creationist. And I don't dispute it either. However, in a world with increasing education, he is not likely to convert many people. What they see is what they get - and increasingly it is obvious these guys are an anachronism or just plain nuts.

The other type is a bit more stealthy. With greater potential for long term damage and staying power. on impressionable minds. They employ the tools of science to perpetuate a myth.

Creationists employ their own mock scientists who actually go against mainstream scientific research, which is scary enough in itself. Creationists raise more creationists who raise more creationists and since they follow the Bible, many creationist women are pumping out babies because they don't believe in birth control.

But you can spot them easily. Yes, they will mess up a few people, but mostly in their circles. I have seen some of their "scientific evidence" and almost fell off my chair laughing.

The other group is more credible, because they sound reasonable. But they are just as badly mistaken but less likely to be dismissed. To me they warrant more wariness.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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29-11-2016, 06:40 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
When I've spoken to Xians who believe in God and evolution I usually ask if we know that it took billions of years for our planet to develop life to it's current state why does the Bible say it took 6 days with one day for rest?

They usually say something like "Well it's symbolic." or "Each day was a couple billion years." or some such nonsense but if that's true, I mean the actual factual truth why doesn't the Bible just say that? Why does it say 6 days? Why doesn't it say billions of years which is a huuuuuge difference?

Apparently the basis of their religion, a "fact" based book either bold faced lies about important facts and history or overuses symbolism and allegory to describe important facts and history. Either way do you really want to based your life long beliefs on a book that either lies to you or expects you to get a degree in poetry and ancient languages to decipher it's confusing prose?

I could say I accept evolution as a fact but also believe in unicorns but these two things don't have anything to do with each other, the same with religion. The Bible or any other holy book is a spiritual text, it's not a science book, just keep it out of science please unless you have actual evidence to share, in which case by all mean share it but it has to be evidence, not just a bunch of old stories.

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29-11-2016, 06:45 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 06:34 PM)tomilay Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 06:09 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Creationists employ their own mock scientists who actually go against mainstream scientific research, which is scary enough in itself. Creationists raise more creationists who raise more creationists and since they follow the Bible, many creationist women are pumping out babies because they don't believe in birth control.

But you can spot them easily. Yes, they will mess up a few people, but mostly in their circles. I have seen some of their "scientific evidence" and almost fell off my chair laughing.

The other group is more credible, because they sound reasonable. But they are just as badly mistaken but less likely to be dismissed. To me they warrant more wariness.

I have seen their "evidence," I even somehow made it all the way through Ray Comfort's "science" book.

And for those who are educated, you are right, their evidence is laughable. Unfortunately, there are more people than not who are raised in religion and kept from mainstream science. You then add in the brainwashing aspect and people are easily pulled along with even the most outlandish of beliefs.

Additionally, those who are raised creationist often times lack critical thinking skills. Theists who also science have the ability to think critically and because they embrace science, there really is no conflict. They also tend not to "recruit" others (based on my experience) and are more worldly in their approach to things.
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29-11-2016, 07:00 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 06:45 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 06:34 PM)tomilay Wrote:  But you can spot them easily. Yes, they will mess up a few people, but mostly in their circles. I have seen some of their "scientific evidence" and almost fell off my chair laughing.

The other group is more credible, because they sound reasonable. But they are just as badly mistaken but less likely to be dismissed. To me they warrant more wariness.

I have seen their "evidence," I even somehow made it all the way through Ray Comfort's "science" book.

And for those who are educated, you are right, their evidence is laughable. Unfortunately, there are more people than not who are raised in religion and kept from mainstream science. You then add in the brainwashing aspect and people are easily pulled along with even the most outlandish of beliefs.

Additionally, those who are raised creationist often times lack critical thinking skills. Theists who also science have the ability to think critically and because they embrace science, there really is no conflict. They also tend not to "recruit" others (based on my experience) and are more worldly in their approach to things.

As an example, local Evangelical channel right now. I was looking for something to watch and it has on "The Bible & Science". Turned it on just as this speaker goes, "When I first went to Princeton, I was a devout evolutionist and atheist! How would I know that there would be people there who would show me the Bible?" Pretty good odds man, it has a world class seminary.

From that point on its been a disjointed ramble about "worldly schemes" and the "failure of humanist schemes", with a smattering of things like, "We have evidence of people surviving being swallowed by whales and living days later! There was a man off Falkland Island in Scotland in 1891 who was swallowed and cut out alive, days later!" Ending with, "thank you for listening to the testimony of a former evolutionist."

(Found him! He's actually a speaker for Ham's AiG at times, John C. Whitcomb).

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29-11-2016, 08:04 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 07:00 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 06:45 PM)jennybee Wrote:  I have seen their "evidence," I even somehow made it all the way through Ray Comfort's "science" book.

And for those who are educated, you are right, their evidence is laughable. Unfortunately, there are more people than not who are raised in religion and kept from mainstream science. You then add in the brainwashing aspect and people are easily pulled along with even the most outlandish of beliefs.

Additionally, those who are raised creationist often times lack critical thinking skills. Theists who also science have the ability to think critically and because they embrace science, there really is no conflict. They also tend not to "recruit" others (based on my experience) and are more worldly in their approach to things.

As an example, local Evangelical channel right now. I was looking for something to watch and it has on "The Bible & Science". Turned it on just as this speaker goes, "When I first went to Princeton, I was a devout evolutionist and atheist! How would I know that there would be people there who would show me the Bible?" Pretty good odds man, it has a world class seminary.

From that point on its been a disjointed ramble about "worldly schemes" and the "failure of humanist schemes", with a smattering of things like, "We have evidence of people surviving being swallowed by whales and living days later! There was a man off Falkland Island in Scotland in 1891 who was swallowed and cut out alive, days later!" Ending with, "thank you for listening to the testimony of a former evolutionist."

(Found him! He's actually a speaker for Ham's AiG at times, John C. Whitcomb).

Huzzah for the professional Liars For Jesus™!!

I find those people more dishonest and disgusting than any other type of charlatan with the exception of those guys who try to steal senile retired peoples' incomes using religious quackery. Angry

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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29-11-2016, 08:07 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 06:02 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 05:54 PM)jennybee Wrote:  So you have more of an issue with a theist who accepts scientific explanations over a creationist who does not? The theist who accepts scientific explanations, yet still holds onto their spiritual beliefs is not impeding science. Even if they never see the "error of their ways," they are not hurting anyone.

The creationist, on the other hand, has no desire to see the error of their ways because the Bible is the literal word of God, so it doesn't matter what science has to say. Those people are scary because they try and infiltrate schools and raise generations of people who are anti-science.

And they try to pass laws to force their views onto you. But hey! I'm the real danger to society because I might be wrong about the things I think.

I don't think anyone is comparing you to evangelicals or big-c Creationists, Aliza. We're certainly not calling you dangerous!

But if you get angry when people question the nature of the beliefs of the Jewish religion and act like it's a personal attack, especially if you fall into false counter-accusations like suggesting that we are calling you (or your views) dangerous despite the fact that many have said the opposite in this thread, then it is a problem.

No one has an issue with people believing silly things. Unless they tell us that we can't question their silly things, or get angry at us for doing so. Or if they (as the evangelicals do but NOT the Jews) push their beliefs onto others via aggressive, deceptive, or passive-aggressive means.

Simple as that.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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29-11-2016, 08:09 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 08:07 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Simple as that.

Yep.

Time to put away childish things Aliza. You're a grown up now.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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29-11-2016, 08:11 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 08:07 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 06:02 PM)Aliza Wrote:  And they try to pass laws to force their views onto you. But hey! I'm the real danger to society because I might be wrong about the things I think.

I don't think anyone is comparing you to evangelicals or big-c Creationists, Aliza. We're certainly not calling you dangerous!

But if you get angry when people question the nature of the beliefs of the Jewish religion and act like it's a personal attack, especially if you fall into false counter-accusations like suggesting that we are calling you (or your views) dangerous despite the fact that many have said the opposite in this thread, then it is a problem.

No one has an issue with people believing silly things. Unless they tell us that we can't question their silly things, or get angry at us for doing so. Or if they (as the evangelicals do but NOT the Jews) push their beliefs onto others via aggressive, deceptive, or passive-aggressive means.

Simple as that.

I'm not angry at all.
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29-11-2016, 08:15 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 08:11 PM)Aliza Wrote:  I'm not angry at all.

Good. No point getting angry over, well quite literally, nothing.

Why are you a believer, Aliza? What possible reason can you have?

You don't have to answer. This is not meant as a demand. Just curiosity.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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