God-guided evolution......
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29-11-2016, 08:22 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 07:00 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 06:45 PM)jennybee Wrote:  I have seen their "evidence," I even somehow made it all the way through Ray Comfort's "science" book.

And for those who are educated, you are right, their evidence is laughable. Unfortunately, there are more people than not who are raised in religion and kept from mainstream science. You then add in the brainwashing aspect and people are easily pulled along with even the most outlandish of beliefs.

Additionally, those who are raised creationist often times lack critical thinking skills. Theists who also science have the ability to think critically and because they embrace science, there really is no conflict. They also tend not to "recruit" others (based on my experience) and are more worldly in their approach to things.

As an example, local Evangelical channel right now. I was looking for something to watch and it has on "The Bible & Science". Turned it on just as this speaker goes, "When I first went to Princeton, I was a devout evolutionist and atheist! How would I know that there would be people there who would show me the Bible?" Pretty good odds man, it has a world class seminary.

From that point on its been a disjointed ramble about "worldly schemes" and the "failure of humanist schemes", with a smattering of things like, "We have evidence of people surviving being swallowed by whales and living days later! There was a man off Falkland Island in Scotland in 1891 who was swallowed and cut out alive, days later!" Ending with, "thank you for listening to the testimony of a former evolutionist."

(Found him! He's actually a speaker for Ham's AiG at times, John C. Whitcomb).

There was a story of a James Bartley that appeared in the August 22, 1891 edition of the Yarmouth Mercury newspaper.

If you follow the link, it says that the man was blind the rest of his life after the incident and he was cut from the stomach of the whale by his crew mates. They investigated it later and found that there never was a James Bartley on the crew manifest of the ship he was supposedly on.

Whenever they make claims like this, I know there's more to the story.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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29-11-2016, 08:30 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 08:07 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 06:02 PM)Aliza Wrote:  And they try to pass laws to force their views onto you. But hey! I'm the real danger to society because I might be wrong about the things I think.

I don't think anyone is comparing you to evangelicals or big-c Creationists, Aliza. We're certainly not calling you dangerous!

But if you get angry when people question the nature of the beliefs of the Jewish religion and act like it's a personal attack, especially if you fall into false counter-accusations like suggesting that we are calling you (or your views) dangerous despite the fact that many have said the opposite in this thread, then it is a problem.

No one has an issue with people believing silly things. Unless they tell us that we can't question their silly things, or get angry at us for doing so. Or if they (as the evangelicals do but NOT the Jews) push their beliefs onto others via aggressive, deceptive, or passive-aggressive means.

Simple as that.

But she was expressing her views and the nature of her beliefs to tomilay. I think she has always been very open about her beliefs on the forum and open to all questions regarding her faith. Her comment about the dangerous thing had to do with my post on creationists and how I think they are far more "dangerous" than science accepting theists.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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29-11-2016, 08:32 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 08:22 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 07:00 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  As an example, local Evangelical channel right now. I was looking for something to watch and it has on "The Bible & Science". Turned it on just as this speaker goes, "When I first went to Princeton, I was a devout evolutionist and atheist! How would I know that there would be people there who would show me the Bible?" Pretty good odds man, it has a world class seminary.

From that point on its been a disjointed ramble about "worldly schemes" and the "failure of humanist schemes", with a smattering of things like, "We have evidence of people surviving being swallowed by whales and living days later! There was a man off Falkland Island in Scotland in 1891 who was swallowed and cut out alive, days later!" Ending with, "thank you for listening to the testimony of a former evolutionist."

(Found him! He's actually a speaker for Ham's AiG at times, John C. Whitcomb).

There was a story of a James Bartley that appeared in the August 22, 1891 edition of the Yarmouth Mercury newspaper.

If you follow the link, it says that the man was blind the rest of his life after the incident and he was cut from the stomach of the whale by his crew mates. They investigated it later and found that there never was a James Bartley on the crew manifest of the ship he was supposedly on.

Whenever they make claims like this, I know there's more to the story.

Were you there? Laugh out load

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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29-11-2016, 08:39 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 08:04 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 07:00 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  As an example, local Evangelical channel right now. I was looking for something to watch and it has on "The Bible & Science". Turned it on just as this speaker goes, "When I first went to Princeton, I was a devout evolutionist and atheist! How would I know that there would be people there who would show me the Bible?" Pretty good odds man, it has a world class seminary.

From that point on its been a disjointed ramble about "worldly schemes" and the "failure of humanist schemes", with a smattering of things like, "We have evidence of people surviving being swallowed by whales and living days later! There was a man off Falkland Island in Scotland in 1891 who was swallowed and cut out alive, days later!" Ending with, "thank you for listening to the testimony of a former evolutionist."

(Found him! He's actually a speaker for Ham's AiG at times, John C. Whitcomb).

Huzzah for the professional Liars For Jesus™!!

I find those people more dishonest and disgusting than any other type of charlatan with the exception of those guys who try to steal senile retired peoples' incomes using religious quackery. Angry

Ugh, yes. Also known as the viewers of TBN on the latter. (Another gem I forgot to post was the whole, "Beware of sending your children to secular universities" spiel.) Those evil atheist professors will indoctrinate your kids against Christianity.


(29-11-2016 08:22 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 07:00 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  As an example, local Evangelical channel right now. I was looking for something to watch and it has on "The Bible & Science". Turned it on just as this speaker goes, "When I first went to Princeton, I was a devout evolutionist and atheist! How would I know that there would be people there who would show me the Bible?" Pretty good odds man, it has a world class seminary.

From that point on its been a disjointed ramble about "worldly schemes" and the "failure of humanist schemes", with a smattering of things like, "We have evidence of people surviving being swallowed by whales and living days later! There was a man off Falkland Island in Scotland in 1891 who was swallowed and cut out alive, days later!" Ending with, "thank you for listening to the testimony of a former evolutionist."

(Found him! He's actually a speaker for Ham's AiG at times, John C. Whitcomb).

There was a story of a James Bartley that appeared in the August 22, 1891 edition of the Yarmouth Mercury newspaper.

If you follow the link, it says that the man was blind the rest of his life after the incident and he was cut from the stomach of the whale by his crew mates. They investigated it later and found that there never was a James Bartley on the crew manifest of the ship he was supposedly on.

Whenever they make claims like this, I know there's more to the story.

Figured it was bunk and didn't bother looking forward, but thanks for the info! Somehow I doubt the audience that was lapping it up would bother looking either, but for different reasons...

Need to think of a witty signature.
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29-11-2016, 08:53 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 08:15 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 08:11 PM)Aliza Wrote:  I'm not angry at all.

Good. No point getting angry over, well quite literally, nothing.

Why are you a believer, Aliza? What possible reason can you have?

You don't have to answer. This is not meant as a demand. Just curiosity.

I follow Judaism because it makes me happy.
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29-11-2016, 10:18 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 06:40 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  When I've spoken to Xians who believe in God and evolution I usually ask if we know that it took billions of years for our planet to develop life to it's current state why does the Bible say it took 6 days with one day for rest?

They usually say something like "Well it's symbolic." or "Each day was a couple billion years." or some such nonsense but if that's true, I mean the actual factual truth why doesn't the Bible just say that? Why does it say 6 days? Why doesn't it say billions of years which is a huuuuuge difference? [...]

Yeah... that flexible length of a day always amuses me too. They were using the 24-hour day just as we do 2,500 years ago (sidereal time). Why would the biblical scribes use some metaphorical figure for the length of their day? They wouldn't of course.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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29-11-2016, 10:48 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 05:47 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 05:25 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  It still does not mean that I can't criticize such use of word. From where I stand no religion is even close to truth as deception is core of it.

Sure you can criticize whatever you wish. I was just making the distinction between Christianity--which actively tries to push their truths on others--and Judaism, which does not. I prefer to put my effort towards groups which actively try and push their beliefs onto others, stand in the way of science, and spread hate.

I don't like both for simply being religions. One being more pushy doesn't mean that other get free pass though.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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29-11-2016, 11:08 PM (This post was last modified: 29-11-2016 11:11 PM by jennybee.)
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 10:48 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 05:47 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Sure you can criticize whatever you wish. I was just making the distinction between Christianity--which actively tries to push their truths on others--and Judaism, which does not. I prefer to put my effort towards groups which actively try and push their beliefs onto others, stand in the way of science, and spread hate.

I don't like both for simply being religions. One being more pushy doesn't mean that other get free pass though.

Sure, you're entitled to your opinion. For me personally, I don't really care what people believe as long as they're not pushing it on me, spreading hate, or standing in the way of science.

I'm not a fan of religion either, but one of the things I like about being an atheist is no longer having my church telling me what to do. The last thing I want to do to another person is to tell them how to be, what to think, etc. especially if they are happy in what they are doing, embrace science, and are living a peaceful existence.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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29-11-2016, 11:24 PM
RE: God-guided evolution......
(29-11-2016 11:08 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 10:48 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I don't like both for simply being religions. One being more pushy doesn't mean that other get free pass though.

Sure, you're entitled to your opinion. For me personally, I don't really care what people believe as long as they're not pushing it on me, spreading hate, or standing in the way of science.

I'm not a fan of religion either, but one of the things I like about being an atheist is no longer having my church telling me what to do. The last thing I want to do to another person is to tell them how to be, what to think, etc. especially if they are happy in what they are doing, embrace science, and are living a peaceful existence.

I don't care what people believe (when their beliefs don't force them to do some silly shit) but I care about what they tell. I saw statement with which I disagree and which I see as perfect example of religious arrogance so I reacted to it. There is nothing more to it.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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29-11-2016, 11:40 PM (This post was last modified: 29-11-2016 11:45 PM by Tartarus Sauce.)
RE: God-guided evolution......
(28-11-2016 10:07 AM)jason197754 Wrote:  How would you respond to someone who believes both in God and in evolution???

What's so outrageous about this? There are more people who believe in both god and evolution than evolution and no god. They're intelligent people living in the modern world endorsing scientific theories while holding their own, independent beliefs about other things not related to science. Why should an atheist give a fuck about this? Most people of this persuasion are our allies in propagating scientific thought and secular practices.
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