"God is Good" - Giving gods undeserved credit
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10-09-2014, 09:37 AM
"God is Good" - Giving gods undeserved credit
I don't know if there is a thread for this already, but I thought it would be useful (at least for me) to have a place to vent about people we hear giving gods credit or praise they don't deserve or thanking a god for comfort or healing while letting that god off the hook for allowing the misfortune in the first place.

The reason is that I don't want to be the asshole that always turns personal tragedy into a god debate, but sometimes it drives me crazy and I need to let it out so I can get on to other things.

For starters...

A friend's Grandma has fallen several times recently. The first time she hit her head very hard and was laying on her bathroom floor bleeding all night. After the most recent fall she went into the hospital and it looked like she probably wouldn't make it much longer. However, her recovery has surpassed initial expectations even if she is still confined to a hospital bed.

What did Grandma have to say about this? "People underestimate what God can do!" Then the choir joins in with variations on the "praise the Lord" theme and "our God can do anything."

Meanwhile, I'm thinking "underestimate God? If anything, I overestimate Him!" For one thing, her loving heavenly father could have picked her up off the floor so she didn't have to lie in a pool of her own blood for 10 hours. Or, I don't know, prevented the fall in the first place? If a human dad knew his daughter busted her head open falling in the bathroom and left her there all night we'd call child protective services. But God, the only one who knew what happened, get's praised because she didn't die. He didn't even prevent the muscle atrophy that contributed to the following succession of falls!

He then gets even more credit when modern medicine and normal human resilience work just like they should.

This is actually a two for one deal, because someone else chimed in with this gem:

" Glad to hear such wonderful news! Reminds me of an older man that used to attend our church yrs ago.... he had alsheimers(?) and didnt know anyone anymore, but when the Pastor or church people would go visit him & have prayer with him- almost immediately his mind was clear & would be praying & praising God! I agree... people under estimate what God can do!"

I'd be more impressed if he just cured Alzheimer's altogether. Anyone who is happy with only a few minutes of clarity here and there is the one who has low expectations for the almighty master of the universe. Dodgy

"I feel as though the camera is almost a kind of voyeur in Mr. Beans life, and you just watch this bizarre man going about his life in the way that he wants to."

-Rowan Atkinson
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10-09-2014, 09:42 AM
RE: "God is Good" - Giving gods undeserved credit
I think God should be arrested for punching Grandma in the head and leaving her on the ground, he's no different than Ray Rice.


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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10-09-2014, 09:44 AM
RE: "God is Good" - Giving gods undeserved credit
These things drive me insane as well. God helps an older lady recover from a fall, yet lets millions of children starve to death. Of course, god is so, so good!
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10-09-2014, 09:56 AM
RE: "God is Good" - Giving gods undeserved credit
(10-09-2014 09:37 AM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  I don't know if there is a thread for this already, but I thought it would be useful (at least for me) to have a place to vent about people we hear giving gods credit or praise they don't deserve or thanking a god for comfort or healing while letting that god off the hook for allowing the misfortune in the first place.

The reason is that I don't want to be the asshole that always turns personal tragedy into a god debate, but sometimes it drives me crazy and I need to let it out so I can get on to other things.

For starters...

A friend's Grandma has fallen several times recently. The first time she hit her head very hard and was laying on her bathroom floor bleeding all night. After the most recent fall she went into the hospital and it looked like she probably wouldn't make it much longer. However, her recovery has surpassed initial expectations even if she is still confined to a hospital bed.

What did Grandma have to say about this? "People underestimate what God can do!" Then the choir joins in with variations on the "praise the Lord" theme and "our God can do anything."

Meanwhile, I'm thinking "underestimate God? If anything, I overestimate Him!" For one thing, her loving heavenly father could have picked her up off the floor so she didn't have to lie in a pool of her own blood for 10 hours. Or, I don't know, prevented the fall in the first place? If a human dad knew his daughter busted her head open falling in the bathroom and left her there all night we'd call child protective services. But God, the only one who knew what happened, get's praised because she didn't die. He didn't even prevent the muscle atrophy that contributed to the following succession of falls!

He then gets even more credit when modern medicine and normal human resilience work just like they should.

This is actually a two for one deal, because someone else chimed in with this gem:

" Glad to hear such wonderful news! Reminds me of an older man that used to attend our church yrs ago.... he had alsheimers(?) and didnt know anyone anymore, but when the Pastor or church people would go visit him & have prayer with him- almost immediately his mind was clear & would be praying & praising God! I agree... people under estimate what God can do!"

I'd be more impressed if he just cured Alzheimer's altogether. Anyone who is happy with only a few minutes of clarity here and there is the one who has low expectations for the almighty master of the universe. Dodgy

Oh you have really hit on one of my hot button issues. Whenever something good happens in my life many people remind me to thank God even though it was my hard work and perseverance that brought about the results. But whenever something bad happens it is the fault of Humans because of our fallen nature.

Pascal's wager is false! You do not lose nothing in the bargain. You lose your self esteem. You have to place your ideal of good in another realm forever out of your reach and you must hold yourself as the standard of evil.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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10-09-2014, 10:14 AM
RE: "God is Good" - Giving gods undeserved credit
(10-09-2014 09:56 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  Oh you have really hit on one of my hot button issues. Whenever something good happens in my life many people remind me to thank God even though it was my hard work and perseverance that brought about the results. But whenever something bad happens it is the fault of Humans because of our fallen nature.

Pascal's wager is false! You do not lose nothing in the bargain. You lose your self esteem. You have to place your ideal of good in another realm forever out of your reach and you must hold yourself as the standard of evil.

Yeah, God's got a pretty sweat racket going on. Heads he wins, tails he doesn't lose.

A Christian caller on Dogma Debate recently tried the "how do we know [modern medicine/science] isn't the way God treats disease?" and Lydia responded "I worked very hard to get where I am. If you're going to give God credit for my hard work, then we're going to have a problem."

Or another version of basically the same idea.

Christian: God works through people
Atheist: God working through people looks suspiciously like God not doing shit...in fact, that's EXACTLY how it would look if there was no God at all... Consider

"I feel as though the camera is almost a kind of voyeur in Mr. Beans life, and you just watch this bizarre man going about his life in the way that he wants to."

-Rowan Atkinson
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10-09-2014, 10:49 AM
RE: "God is Good" - Giving gods undeserved credit
(10-09-2014 09:37 AM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  ...almost immediately his mind was clear & would be praying & praising God!

What did he mean by "his mind was clear"? Did the man suddenly recognize everybody or was he just able to recite prayers from rote memory? From what little I've heard about the condition the latter may be likely. Not that having something to grasp onto might not have given him some comfort but it hardly shows a loving god. It seems to me that a god who loved his "children" would let them enjoy their memories as they aged and not make them well only when offering praise. What kind of narcissistic bully is this god?

http://www.hhmi.org/news/alzheimers-may-...ory-intact

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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10-09-2014, 11:29 AM
RE: "God is Good" - Giving gods undeserved credit
(10-09-2014 10:49 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(10-09-2014 09:37 AM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  ...almost immediately his mind was clear & would be praying & praising God!

What did he mean by "his mind was clear"?

You know as much as I do. The person who told the story probably doesn't know either - it was hearsay for her as well (just like all good miracle accounts).

But I would certainly agree with your suggestion that a lifetime of singing the same songs and saying the same prayers probably created a pattern in his brain that could be triggered by the right stimulus is a more likely explanation than divine intervention.

"I feel as though the camera is almost a kind of voyeur in Mr. Beans life, and you just watch this bizarre man going about his life in the way that he wants to."

-Rowan Atkinson
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10-09-2014, 11:43 AM
RE: "God is Good" - Giving gods undeserved credit
We had one of these not to long ago. Something along the lines of crediting the hits and ignoring the misses.
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10-09-2014, 12:56 PM
RE: "God is Good" - Giving gods undeserved credit
My dad had Alzheimer's. He couldn't remember what he did earlier that day or even that my mom died a week ago and he was at the funeral.
What he could remember in great detail was where he was stationed in WW2, or any number of long term memories.
If the old mans praying was from his long ago past this could explain his 'sudden clarity'.
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10-09-2014, 01:37 PM
RE: "God is Good" - Giving gods undeserved credit
Giving gods credit stems from being too afraid of their wrath to not give them credit. This is how the Abrahamic faiths are portrayed.

God of the Bible sounds like a petulant little kid who if he doesn't get his way or doesn't receive endless praise, will resort to vicious tactics.

The Abrahamic version of god seems to be suffering from narcissistic personality disorder.

Be true to yourself. Heart
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