God is "beyond" science!
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30-12-2012, 04:14 PM
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RE: God is "beyond" science!
Well, sure. God is beyond science if that's how you define God.
But the God of the monotheisms acts in the world and is therefore not beyond the ken of science. You can't have it both ways. ![]() Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims. Science is not a subject, but a method. ![]() |
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30-12-2012, 04:19 PM
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RE: God is "beyond" science!
(30-12-2012 03:16 PM)Ghost Wrote: Hey, Phaedrus. ![]() Not much you can't do with an oscilloscope, aside from get laid. E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2 614C → 714N + e– + ̅νe 2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol It works, bitches. |
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30-12-2012, 04:34 PM
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RE: God is "beyond" science!
When your god has the same powers, characteristics, ability to help mankind as I give to an imaginary being that I invent in my mind and both are beyond the ability of science to detect in the real world, then guess what, your god is imaginary.
My imaginary car can't do what a real car does. My imaginary "anything" can't do what the real thing does. But my imaginary god can do ALL the things you say your real god can do. That puts your god in the same realm as my imaginary one, thus making it also imaginary. Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results |
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30-12-2012, 05:02 PM
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RE: God is "beyond" science!
(30-12-2012 02:15 AM)Phaedrus Wrote: God might be beyond science, but any action he takes in the material world must at some point cause material effects. He must manipulate matter, energy, or forces to cause miracles, and that manipulation should at least be hypothetically measurable or detectable. ^ Bastard beat me too it. I actually had a discussion that followed along similar tracks, wherein a theist asked me what evidence I would expect of god. To cut my story short: I told him anything measurable and verifiable. (I remember listing DNA (or it's equivalent), reasoning if it is living in anyway (based on living, interventionist god kind of god concept), it should have something that effect, pictures and/or verifiable documentation of it etc.) He called "God's not physical, so why expect physical evidence?" To which I replied "If it interacts with the physical universe, it's actions should still be measurable. He then denied that evidence must be verifiable, and claimed math as if proof of that. The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy. "Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show. |
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30-12-2012, 05:06 PM
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RE: God is "beyond" science!
I agree with you. Its patent bullshit. We can still enjoy fantasy stories and movies without buying into magical thinking in the real world. We can still play fantasy computer games so its not like we don't get opportunities for our imagination to run riot. In the real world however i think we need to keep rooted in reality and the beauty is that the universe is full of real wonders that boggle the mind and are way more interesting than fairy stories that humans have invented.
"Nothing Great is Easy" - Des Renford (English Channel Swimmer) |
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30-12-2012, 05:40 PM
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RE: God is "beyond" science!
(29-12-2012 06:46 PM)GodlessnFree Wrote: I am assuming that the people reading this are smart enough to know that the desert myths are false. I usually have an easy time debunking the anecdotes/ logical fallacies that theists use to prove the existence of a god/ their god.I suspect God isn't beyond the scope of science. But he may be well beyond the scope of this universe or any universes and beyond our comprehension of reality. That's assuming that God does, in fact, exist. And that's a big IF..... "IN THRUST WE TRUST" "We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass." - Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade |
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30-12-2012, 05:52 PM
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RE: God is "beyond" science!
(30-12-2012 03:09 PM)Ghost Wrote: Stupid lost postsHey Ghost. I don't think we would need science to observe the absence of cataracts in a patient that previously had them. We would need science to try and answer why or how they had actually disappeared. I agree that since it is a hypothetical case study it would by definition not be repeatable, though that doesn't mean there isn't potential observable "residue" available for analysis. Yes, I agree there is no unit of measurement for wizard power, at least currently. Remember Arthur Clarke's third law, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". Just because don't have the ability to detect something today doesn't mean that we won't be able to detect it at a later date, which was the point of my first post. Take for example the famous video from the 60's, I think, that showed frame by frame a bullet passing through an apple. High speed photography became an invaluable source for observing the unobservable and now we can do the same thing for a beam of light. If you are interested the following link will take you to a TED talk about femto-photography and what it can do: http://www.ted.com/talks/ramesh_raskar_a...econd.html Regarding a type II error. When I design and interpret the results of any experiment I am acutely aware of potentially committing two errors that have significant repercussions for the scientific community at large. The first is a type I error and is an error of reporting a finding that doesn't actually exist. This does not necessarily mean that the report is fabricated, although that does happen occasionally. It could mean that I simply engaged in confirmation bias and misinterpreted my results and report that something happened when in fact it did not. This is the most serious error that can occur and must be avoided at all costs. It sets the scientific community back, especially when subsequent work may be based on your findings. Naturally, it will be discovered that an error exists but the question is always how long it might take before the discovery. This leads to the type II error. This is simply an error of not finding a result when one actually exists. Usually this arises from not looking at the data carefully enough and is a relatively easy error to commit, especially if you have a complicated data set and are asking complicated interaction questions. This error does less damage to the scientific community. If I look at a data set and believe I have found nothing then I am not likely to submit that information for publication. Although a negative finding can be as important as a positive finding. The most important way this error damages science is that it hinders progress in a way. Time spent answering a question that has already been answered is time that could have been spent elsewhere. I hope that was helpful. Cheers. Steve |
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30-12-2012, 05:52 PM
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RE: God is "beyond" science!
Free Thought here is a video for ya that might help with your friend when he talks about math.
Around 8:25 in the video, math is discussed with the claim that math is purely rational and has it's roots in set theory. Enjoy Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results |
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30-12-2012, 06:16 PM
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RE: God is "beyond" science!
(30-12-2012 05:52 PM)Rahn127 Wrote: Free Thought here is a video for ya that might help with your friend when he talks about math.I have watched that many times. I explained that math could be shown and had, itself, evidence to support it, he dropped off of the conversation after that. I simply ended because I had no desire to attract too much attention away from the topic at hand. The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy. "Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show. |
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30-12-2012, 07:00 PM
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RE: God is "beyond" science!
(30-12-2012 03:16 PM)Ghost Wrote: Hey, MDog.Really? You do realize all of magic is really an illusion, and the tricks behind the illusions are demonstrable. But considering the idea that magic was some how a reality, science would discover the underlying mechanism by which it works. That data would be published, refined, theories chipped away at until we understood the most basic constituents of its operation were uncovered and thoroughly understood. Member of the Cult of Reason
Bitcion:1DNeQMswMdvx4xLPP6qNE7RkeTwXGC7Bzp
The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason. -Baron d'Holbach- |
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