God is love? Not in this Universe.
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17-07-2013, 11:11 PM
RE: God is love? Not in this Universe.
(17-07-2013 10:59 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(17-07-2013 10:28 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  O my..there's a shoo fly song???

Where are my kids? I totally need to harass them with this! I also need to make a shoo fly pie in CE's honor.

Is there a shoo fly song ?
What universe do you live in ?

I never knew it!!!! Weeping


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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18-07-2013, 03:15 AM
RE: God is love? Not in this Universe.
(16-07-2013 07:28 PM)childeye Wrote:  I don't know about you, but when I watch a sad movie and I cry, it is not to moisten my eye to prevent material from infecting it. It is because I am touched and moved in my heart.

Oh, I am sorry. Did you miss the entire part where I said it is entirely inconsequential?

Quote:Because said emotion happens to be conveyed via the tear duct is entirely inconsequential to this debate. Organisms that happened to be born with said mutation survived better than ones without.

Seriously.

(16-07-2013 07:28 PM)childeye Wrote:  I do hug because I love people and so I embrace them.

And I explained why that is and where it came from.

(16-07-2013 07:28 PM)childeye Wrote:  I smile because I'm happy.

Again, a social signal. A developed form of communication derived from an ancient defense mechanism.

(16-07-2013 07:28 PM)childeye Wrote:  You conveniently skipped many of the questions, that's what I notice. Divine answers speak to a meaning in life. What troubles me most is you seek solace for the most meaningful things in a cold and heartless science.

Yes, I did. It is not at all convenient for me to answer all of these simplistic questions when you can easily search for them on the internet yourself. I explained the first three to get a point across, not to educate you about remedial biology. If you want to know the explanations to your questions, look on Wikipedia.

Divine answers conjure up falsehoods with no evidence. It is not comparable to science. Religion and theism as a whole do not find answers, they make them up. What's worse, they are static in their assertions. They aren't malleable like science is.

Why does that trouble you? Can I not apply "cold and heartless" science to my worldview without having a deep love and passion for my fellow human beings? While you dawdle around with your thumb up your ass, doing all that you do for the false grandeur of a non-existent deity, I do what I do to help my fellow people so that we may continue in the most comfortable manner possible. That is our evolutionary drive. I hardly see anything cold about it.

(16-07-2013 07:28 PM)childeye Wrote:  I'm sorry Logica, but again this makes no sense to me. God would have to supply the evidence for me to know He loves me. Yes it does begin in faith however, as all good relationships do.

So stop saying you know anything about your god. Faith is not knowledge, it is the suspension of critical thinking.

(16-07-2013 07:28 PM)childeye Wrote:  I have my evidence. I feel anything I say is going to be delusional in your view.

The reason you are delusion is because you don't have evidence. Again, this is a faith-based belief.

(16-07-2013 07:28 PM)childeye Wrote:  There is nothing that can go undisputed. Do you dispute that? At any rate it doesn't matter whether or not it happened as that is not the point. The point is that they could appreciate the Spirit of Christ which is a testimony of their recognition of what a Godly Love does..

Everything is subject to the possibility of disputation. One must, however, provide evidence if one makes a positive claim. Provide your evidence that Jesus even existed, and if he did all of those things.

It is the point. You are not Jesus. These people thanked you because you claimed you were willing to die for them, not because there was a divine spirit moving them. What you believe on faith is subjective and irrelevant.

(16-07-2013 07:28 PM)childeye Wrote:  In all honesty you have perceived me wrongly. I never asserted anything but a forthright answer. Unfortunately I am having a hard time convincing you. Only you would know why you are so cynical of everything I say.

I have not perceived you any which way. You did not provide a forthright answer, you claimed I felt a certain way without any evidence. I am not cynical, I am demanding that you provide tangible, objective evidence for your beliefs. I have not demonstrated a lack of hope in the human race. I have demonstrated an unwillingness to take you by your unsubstantiated word.

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18-07-2013, 08:05 PM (This post was last modified: 18-07-2013 08:37 PM by childeye.)
RE: God is love? Not in this Universe.
(18-07-2013 03:15 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(16-07-2013 07:28 PM)childeye Wrote:  I don't know about you, but when I watch a sad movie and I cry, it is not to moisten my eye to prevent material from infecting it. It is because I am touched and moved in my heart.

Oh, I am sorry. Did you miss the entire part where I said it is entirely inconsequential?
Yeah I got it, you feel it's inconsequential to the debate. You're missing my point however, it's an assertion based on a false premise that you bring forth to begin with. Notice below what you said.
Quote:Because said emotion happens to be conveyed via the tear duct is entirely inconsequential to this debate.
I'm not talking about conveying an emotion at all. We often cry alone conveying nothing to anyone. I'm saying it is deeply felt. It means something. Of course we have a biologically made capable body to cry or it wouldn't be happening at all. Everyone knows that.

It is not about a gene or an electrical energy transmitting a thought stimulating an emotion. Of course that happens. But it is caused by a moment in life that happens and shapes a character. When I cry, I don't think , oh there goes that gene that must be for survival.
Quote: Organisms that happened to be born with said mutation survived better than ones without.
Seriously.
That could be said about anything that is alive today and dead tomorrow. That in fact is your only answer for everything in human life including animosity, vengeance, greed, snobbery, selfishness, embarrassment, vanity, pride, arrogance, fingernails, big butts, stubby fingers, smelly pits, great painting, sculpting, music and dancing, and stupid remarks.
(16-07-2013 07:28 PM)childeye Wrote:  I do hug because I love people and so I embrace them.

Quote:And I explained why that is and where it came from.
And I explained it is the same explanation as why we poop and pee.

(16-07-2013 07:28 PM)childeye Wrote:  I smile because I'm happy.

Quote:Again, a social signal. A developed form of communication derived from an ancient defense mechanism.


With all due respect, that's a stretch. I am smiling right now because I am happy. No one sees me so I'm not communicating anything to anybody. And I don't smile when I feel threatened.
Quote:Yes, I did. It is not at all convenient for me to answer all of these simplistic questions when you can easily search for them on the internet yourself. I explained the first three to get a point across, not to educate you about remedial biology. If you want to know the explanations to your questions, look on Wikipedia.
No thank you. I know your answer for anything about the universe and every single vegetable, person or thing, animal or mineral in it. It evolved and means nothing but survival.

Quote:Why does that trouble you? Can I not apply "cold and heartless" science to my worldview without having a deep love and passion for my fellow human beings?

Only if you have the gene of deep love and passion for fellow human beings for survival. However if you have the gene to be cold and heartless for survival, I'm not so sure if such survival would turn into justifying cannibalism through the same reasoning. Seriously, I'm sure you feel heartfelt passion just like anybody else. It troubles me because it is a shallow answer for a world view and I don't like it.

Quote:While you dawdle around with your thumb up your ass, doing all that you do for the false grandeur of a non-existent deity, I do what I do to help my fellow people so that we may continue in the most comfortable manner possible. That is our evolutionary drive. I hardly see anything cold about it.
You've said nothing but a contradiction, because you will contradictorily also say the same thing about being cold and heartless being someone's evolutionary drive.
(16-07-2013 07:28 PM)childeye Wrote:  I'm sorry Logica, but again this makes no sense to me. God would have to supply the evidence for me to know He loves me. Yes it does begin in faith however, as all good relationships do.

Quote:So stop saying you know anything about your god. Faith is not knowledge, it is the suspension of critical thinking.
I know Love is best and I know God is Love. Not only do I know God loves me because He gives me my daily bread, but I know He loves me because I believe in the work on the cross of Christ.

(16-07-2013 07:28 PM)childeye Wrote:  There is nothing that can go undisputed. Do you dispute that? At any rate it doesn't matter whether or not it happened as that is not the point. The point is that they could appreciate the Spirit of Christ which is a testimony of their recognition of what a Godly Love does..

Quote:Everything is subject to the possibility of disputation. One must, however, provide evidence if one makes a positive claim. Provide your evidence that Jesus even existed, and if he did all of those things.
Oh I don't think any amount of evidence would convince you of what I am positive. Only God revealing Himself in a way that would convince you is what would convince you.

Quote:It is the point. You are not Jesus. These people thanked you because you claimed you were willing to die for them, not because there was a divine spirit moving them. What you believe on faith is subjective and irrelevant.
Who are you to say these people have no divine Spirit? They proved they did because such Love they recognized is divine. Think of it as they have the gene to appreciate what moves a Christian to trust in the Christ.

(16-07-2013 07:28 PM)childeye Wrote:  In all honesty you have perceived me wrongly. I never asserted anything but a forthright answer. Unfortunately I am having a hard time convincing you. Only you would know why you are so cynical of everything I say.

Quote:I have not perceived you any which way. You did not provide a forthright answer, you claimed I felt a certain way without any evidence. I am not cynical, I am demanding that you provide tangible, objective evidence for your beliefs.

I assure you, I never claimed you felt a certain way. You misunderstoodd me. Look at my answer. I am simply saying I don't think you give charity for reward.

Quote:I have not demonstrated a lack of hope in the human race. I have demonstrated an unwillingness to take you by your unsubstantiated word.
I don't want you to take me by my unsubstantiated word. I'm not even trying to get you to believe in God per se. I am just challenging your assertions. You think the answers to everything is in science and I don't. That is what I have been debating.
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22-07-2013, 09:01 AM
RE: God is love? Not in this Universe.
(17-07-2013 10:28 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  O my..there's a shoo fly song???

Where are my kids? I totally need to harass them with this! I also need to make a shoo fly pie in CE's honor.
I love shoo fly pie.
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