God is omnipresent?
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14-09-2012, 08:47 AM
RE: God is omnipresent?
(14-09-2012 07:44 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  As this seems to be another cheesy attempt at debunking a characteristic of a God you have yet to even consider the possibility of it's existence, perhaps I should give my $.02 anyway.

That Omnipresence is different from Pantheism I think is perhaps an important distinction to make.
His presence is not the same as we would think of presence. We would think of it in a natural/physical location sense, whereas location is not an issue for something outside the natural realm.

As far as I can think of it (Which is incredibly limited), it could be comparable to a 'mind' that isn't anywhere in the sense that it can be located, but is everywhere in the sense that it cannot be located.
Er... well it makes more sense when I'm thinking about it. But, perhaps you can still get what I'm saying.
The philosophy on this issue is a bit grey for me since I haven't spent much time on it.

So directly to your question - I do believe that He is present in Hell, but I'm guessing it's a much different issue for Him.

"Outside the natural realm"??

What is this shit, Paranormal Activity Five?

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14-09-2012, 09:04 AM
RE: God is omnipresent?
If I could believe in hell at all, it would not be the fire and brimstone type. It would be merely a denial into heaven and therefore a spiritual separation from God and the other beings there. If this was true, then no, God would not be in hell by definition.

But none of it's true anyway. The only really possible "hell" is certain places here on Earth and God certainly is not here.

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14-09-2012, 09:20 AM
RE: God is omnipresent?
Dammit, KC, that was so full of wiggle, I had to go back and get more. I mean, look at this shit:

No molecule or atomic particle is so small that God is not fully present to it

but

Hence, hell is a state that is in the presence of God, but not in a state of a blessed presence.

That's "a very, very good article?" That's sound philosophy to you? That "fully" means " fully" until it doesn't?

Clarify that, motherfucker. Big Grin

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14-09-2012, 09:50 AM
RE: God is omnipresent?
The biggest problem I had with KC's article was this:

"Yet, God in His infinite mercy, allows the occupants to continue to exist rather than to snuff them out because of their intrinsic value: for something is greater than nothing, having life, no matter the condition, is better than having no life."

I disagree with the notion that something suffering for all eternity with the worst imaginable pain is greater than nothing. And surely if I, with my finite mind, can understand this, any infinite being could and would.

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14-09-2012, 10:02 AM (This post was last modified: 14-09-2012 10:07 AM by Logica Humano.)
RE: God is omnipresent?
(14-09-2012 07:42 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(14-09-2012 02:10 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  A simple question for any theist out there. If God is omnipresent, does he exist in hell?

Short answer, yes.

Eric Landstrom has a very, very good article on it.

Article here.

***He believes in systematic theology like I do and denies process theology, again, like me***

Quote:Thus, we affirm that lake of fire is before God, that God is present within it and present within it's occupants. Nevertheless, we deny the idea of process theology, or that of eminence, the idea that creation emanates from the being of God because it doesn't differentiate clearly enough that the creation is not God. Hence, hell is a state that is in the presence of God, but not in a state of a blessed presence.

That's your best argument? *whistles* I'd hate to see the worst. So, again, tell me how the theologians you believe are able to comprehend these aspects of God, but others whom you disagree with are not?
The article also seems to imply that not only is God unwilling to end eternal torture for those punished, but he is incapable of doing so.

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14-09-2012, 10:26 AM
RE: God is omnipresent?
@Logica

He not incapable.

He's already chosen not to. Since His decisions span and originate from infinity, His decision is solidified. A changing of decision would affect His omniscience and omnipotence, so a changing of a decision is a paradox and simply cannot be.

I go into more detail here.

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14-09-2012, 10:28 AM
RE: God is omnipresent?
Also, I'm not agreeing with everything in the article.

My point in it was for it to describe God's omnipresence even in hell. It wasn't for this guy's theology. I just feel that he describes omnipresence very, very well.

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14-09-2012, 10:28 AM
RE: God is omnipresent?
God is omniabsent. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-09-2012, 10:43 AM
RE: God is omnipresent?
(14-09-2012 10:26 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  @Logica

He not incapable.

He's already chosen not to. Since His decisions span and originate from infinity, His decision is solidified. A changing of decision would affect His omniscience and omnipotence, so a changing of a decision is a paradox and simply cannot be.

I go into more detail here.

That would violate the "benevolence" clause.

(14-09-2012 10:28 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Also, I'm not agreeing with everything in the article.

My point in it was for it to describe God's omnipresence even in hell. It wasn't for this guy's theology. I just feel that he describes omnipresence very, very well.

He used a lot of words to answer a "yes" or "no" question.

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14-09-2012, 11:11 AM
RE: God is omnipresent?
Definition of TRANSCEND
transitive verb
1
a : to rise above or go beyond the limits of
b : to triumph over the negative or restrictive
aspects of : overcome
c : to be prior to, beyond, and above (the
universe or material existence)
2
:to outstrip or outdo in some attribute, quality,
or power
intransitive verb
: to rise above or extend notably beyond
ordinary limits

Now reread the article and realize it makes less sense.

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