"God is outside of time and space"
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28-12-2011, 03:44 PM
RE: "God is outside of time and space"
(28-12-2011 03:38 PM)Ghost Wrote:  I'm a big fan of the universe within universes idea. Like standing between two mirrors. Perhaps it stretches to infinity in both directions, perhaps there's a beginning and an end, or perhaps it's a loop.

One of the critiques of this notion is that say we either were the subset of another universe or that we created a "virtual" universe. Like a simulation. The critique is that we would have to have enough computing power to compute the created universe. Therefore, if they created a new universe, they would necessarily have less computing power than us, just as we have less computing power than our parent universe.

It's a good critique, but I wonder if the idea of algorithms defeats it. The video game Spore is so incredibly expansive because the programmer realised that if he made the game algorithmic rather than computational (my terms likely stink of non-1337 n008ness) that the game could generate a vast universe using a fraction of the computational power. Dan Dennet suggests that evolution is an algorithm. So what if everything is? Math, physics, gravity… Then, in order to create a new universe, we just have to write a really bitching algorithm. Perhaps the theory of everything is actually an equation. Like maybe our entire universe is nothing more than the expression of an algorithmic equation. Trippy.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

But an algorithm is abstract - it needs to have a substrate on which to be realized, to execute.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-12-2011, 04:16 PM
RE: "God is outside of time and space"
Hey, Chaz.

Told you I was a noob Cool

Behold the great substrate! The SNES!

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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28-12-2011, 10:15 PM
RE: "God is outside of time and space"
There's an interesting argument to be made that time is an energy form much like gravity or electromagnetism rather than a linear passage of events. Such things are almost impossible to fathom. Yet, hyperspace (or subspace) is considered to be a real thing by physicists and I think the theory essentially says that this is the space between dimensional space, the blank canvas or the first layer.

Couldn't a God - if it existed - live within such a realm? I doubt that humans could even fathom the complexity of such inter-dimensional existence. We're already discovering that laws of physics do not all adhere to the rules that we thought they did.

"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter!"

-Yoda-
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29-12-2011, 07:40 AM
RE: "God is outside of time and space"
When Buddy Christ asks the question...





Stephen Hawking gives the answer. 41:03 for the impatient. "Since time did not exist before the Big Bang, there was no time for God to make the universe..." and there you go.

To consider a God outside of time and space without the help of experts, perhaps you wanna consider my LC thread. Wink

Because you either gotta be a nutbag or a genius to hold it all together. I'm a certified nutbag who missed genius by four IQ points. Tongue

The answer is no because the question is misleading. Can God exist outside time and space? Sure, God can do anything. So the question then becomes, why do we, causal entropic creatures that we are, perceive God? Then the Agenda rears its ugly head. Because we atheists don't perceive God, now do we? And we're all just soulless minions of Satan destined for the Fire, ain't that right? Yeah, that's the fucking answer... not.

So who perceives God? The prophet? Sure, refer to the LC thread - unless of course I'm a false prophet and minion of Satan, in that case, read above. I would ask you, do you expect the false prophet to consider that he is a false prophet? Satan... Satan... Satan... Big Grin

So who perceives God? The book? tao te ching, sure; any other book, not so much. What's the problem with books? Well, we can't get Lao Tzu up on the stand to describe this tao thing nor equate the Chinese mentality of 300 BCE to the information age, now can we? So books are left to interpreters.

So who perceives God? I. I am that I am. 1 to 4, right there; YHWH the fourth identity. Because I've done the research; that God is essentially "point object truth local to the identity' - and this includes all God. If all perspective of God is local to the identity, itself a product of time and space; a God outside time and space fails parsimony. Big Grin

For me, simultaneity kills this kinda speculation dead. You wanna talk about taking a ride outside time and space, tell me how simultaneity is not the first stop; then let's talk sanity. That's the benefit of being insane, I know where sanity ends, and you do not want to go there. Wink

Now that I got all the current atheist outta me, could God exist outside time and space? God? Exist? See what happens? We can make up any kind of creative fiction; and any kind of reality derivative of such fiction is only going to be "point object truth local to the identity" like my being Jedi. What is existence without space in which to exist? Supposing "spaceless space," why is it necessary to invoke the identifier God?

Why not? Because the identifier God leads to indefensible positions, illogical conclusions, duality and paradox. That's why not. Because causality breaks down without time; a god that creates without time is not creating as we understand it, therefore someone is lying. Who lies but the I?

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29-12-2011, 08:44 AM
RE: "God is outside of time and space"
Hey, Bairny.

Consider my mind blown, maaaaaaan Cool

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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29-12-2011, 07:11 PM
RE: "God is outside of time and space"
(28-12-2011 11:36 AM)The_observer Wrote:  
(28-12-2011 03:40 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(28-12-2011 02:31 AM)The_observer Wrote:  On the other hand...
This is a nice theory on what I think is the key to life's big mystery... "The way we perceive, and are obliged to follow, time"

We made time up to make sense out of this shit, ... time is more servant than savior.
Do you mean that, should we not measure time, it should not progress? I doubt that...

I'm afraid it's worse (better?) than that for Girly. If we had never started marking time in the first place it would never have even existed. It's just a necessary artifact to make sense of anything for the way we're wired. But just because Girly don't hold himself subservient to time, or even necessarily believe in it, don't mean I don't milk the shit out of it through the power of compound interest. Big Grin

P.S. Just watched Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse-Five again earlier today. Vonnegut was a goddam genius.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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29-12-2011, 07:14 PM
RE: "God is outside of time and space"
(29-12-2011 07:11 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  P.S. Just watched Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse-Five again earlier today. Vonnegut was a goddam genius.

Amen, Brotha. And talk about a dude who understood what it meant to be outside Time and Space!

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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