"God is self-existent"
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12-03-2015, 03:32 PM
RE: "God is self-existent"
(12-03-2015 10:39 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(11-03-2015 01:29 PM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  My apologies, Q, but I don't interact with dumbshit. I find it aggravates me to an extent that is not necessary for me to maintain a happy life. I abandoned nonsensical thinking like yours, twice, and I have no intention of getting sucked into it again. Happy dumbshittery. Peace.

If you think it is a waste of time to conjecture why laws of matter were suspended when the universe was incepted, and you are unwilling to either commit to saying "scientists will figure it out" and put science in this gap or god in this gap, then neither TTA nor I will be of benefit to you. You're in the wrong forum unless you can heartily to commit to sticking god or "unknown mystery science" in this gap IMHO.


I'm sorry, but what part of "I don't waste my time with dumbshit" are you failing to understand?

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13-03-2015, 09:48 AM
RE: "God is self-existent"
(12-03-2015 02:15 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  
(12-03-2015 01:27 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I apologize, but the intellectually honest answer is "We don't know how or why fundamental, universe-wide immutable laws of physics were abrogated, but it peaks our curiosity that the matter somehow got here ex nihilo." Creation from nothing is precisely what the Law implies.

If one were to follow the standard laws of causality, sure. But since we don't know whether those laws were reality "before" the universe began its not possible to say that ex-nihilo is a forgone conclusion.

And thus your two choices are a) this universe's matter and energy was caused by nothing or b) caused by something--and due to the Law of Conservation of Matter this something was an immaterial something composed neither of matter nor energy as we know it. Spiritual being, perhaps? Drinking Beverage

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13-03-2015, 12:31 PM
RE: "God is self-existent"
(12-03-2015 01:27 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(12-03-2015 11:46 AM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  The intellectually honest answer is "we don't know."

I apologize, but the intellectually honest answer is "We don't know how or why fundamental, universe-wide immutable laws of physics were abrogated, but it peaks* our curiosity that the matter somehow got here ex nihilo." Creation from nothing is precisely what the Law implies.

*piques
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13-03-2015, 04:08 PM
RE: "God is self-existent"
(13-03-2015 12:31 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(12-03-2015 01:27 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I apologize, but the intellectually honest answer is "We don't know how or why fundamental, universe-wide immutable laws of physics were abrogated, but it peaks* our curiosity that the matter somehow got here ex nihilo." Creation from nothing is precisely what the Law implies.

*piques

I think he really meant it peaks his curiosity, it's just that his curiosity peaks at molehill level.

#sigh
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16-03-2015, 10:37 AM
RE: "God is self-existent"
Or we go your routes and say the universe was always here (in some form). Now there's some 'splainin' to do, Lucy!

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16-03-2015, 11:30 AM
RE: "God is self-existent"
(16-03-2015 10:37 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Or we go your routes and say the universe was always here (in some form). Now there's some 'splainin' to do, Lucy!

Not really -- if something was always here, it might as well be the universe as God. Both possibilities are equally mind-boggling. I know of no way to distinguish between the two, and I'm willing to admit the possibility of some sort of "Creator". However, I'm quite certain that if there was/is a Creator, he/she/it bears little or no resemblance to the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible was pretty obviously created by the Israelites in their own image. He is a character in a story. The story is entertaining in spots, but it's preposterous to pretend that it's "true".
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17-03-2015, 12:01 PM
RE: "God is self-existent"
(16-03-2015 11:30 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(16-03-2015 10:37 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Or we go your routes and say the universe was always here (in some form). Now there's some 'splainin' to do, Lucy!

Not really -- if something was always here, it might as well be the universe as God. Both possibilities are equally mind-boggling. I know of no way to distinguish between the two, and I'm willing to admit the possibility of some sort of "Creator". However, I'm quite certain that if there was/is a Creator, he/she/it bears little or no resemblance to the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible was pretty obviously created by the Israelites in their own image. He is a character in a story. The story is entertaining in spots, but it's preposterous to pretend that it's "true".

If the universe was always here, you are saying the Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy is untrue.

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17-03-2015, 12:33 PM
RE: "God is self-existent"
(17-03-2015 12:01 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(16-03-2015 11:30 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Not really -- if something was always here, it might as well be the universe as God. Both possibilities are equally mind-boggling. I know of no way to distinguish between the two, and I'm willing to admit the possibility of some sort of "Creator". However, I'm quite certain that if there was/is a Creator, he/she/it bears little or no resemblance to the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible was pretty obviously created by the Israelites in their own image. He is a character in a story. The story is entertaining in spots, but it's preposterous to pretend that it's "true".

If the universe was always here, you are saying the Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy is untrue.

No, that doesn't follow. Conservation of Matter/Energy is violated when a universe springs into existence out of nothing, as you claim it did. It is not violated at all by an eternal universe. So you are the one claiming that the conservation law is violated.
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18-03-2015, 10:11 AM
RE: "God is self-existent"
(17-03-2015 12:33 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(17-03-2015 12:01 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  If the universe was always here, you are saying the Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy is untrue.

No, that doesn't follow. Conservation of Matter/Energy is violated when a universe springs into existence out of nothing, as you claim it did. It is not violated at all by an eternal universe. So you are the one claiming that the conservation law is violated.

Huh.. never claimed it came from nothing.. I simply am giving you the choice of ex nihilo or a special explanation.

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18-03-2015, 11:12 AM
RE: "God is self-existent"
(18-03-2015 10:11 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(17-03-2015 12:33 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  No, that doesn't follow. Conservation of Matter/Energy is violated when a universe springs into existence out of nothing, as you claim it did. It is not violated at all by an eternal universe. So you are the one claiming that the conservation law is violated.

Huh.. never claimed it came from nothing.. I simply am giving you the choice of ex nihilo or a special explanation.

And that is a false dichotomy.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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