God is the best doctor!
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10-08-2012, 03:47 PM
RE: God is the best doctor!
An interesting development on one of the prayer chain things.... one of the people involved with one (a family member apparently) has said something like "we have prayer bracelets for $2, and we're accepting donations for care" and a number have decided to put $$ where their prayers are (so to speak) and have actually donated money. That kind of makes me happy Big Grin Some of the praying for things people are actually doing something to help and not just sitting back.
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10-08-2012, 04:13 PM
RE: God is the best doctor!
Ghost,
No I'm not guessing. It's a matter of definition. By definition, an attempt means also a failure. An omnipotent god, by definition, can do anything and therefore would not fail. So, like I said, if God wanted to save the man, he would just do so.

And that relates back to the original subject of this thread. If God wanted to save people from medical issues, he wouldn't need hospitals. It's people that need the hospitals. If those same people simply decided not to go to a hospital and they stayed home and just prayed instead, God (according to those who believe) could still easily save their relative. So why don't they just stay home and pray then? Why do they need the hospitals? I have to agree with elemts, it's because they lack the faith that prayer would work.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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10-08-2012, 09:33 PM
RE: God is the best doctor!
Hey, Impulse.

I agree, an omnipotent God CAN do anything. But an omnipotent God does not HAVE to do anything.

Christian theology covers everything you've said by stating that God allows for choice. If I have magical cat food powers and I plop fifty different kinds of cat food down in front of my cat AND I give her the power of choice, she can pick any one of them, or she can decide to eat none of them, or save them for later, or let my other cat eat first.... the choices are legion. None of this negates the fact that I have magical cat food powers. More to the point, I have not failed at anything because I didn't try to make my cat DO anything in particular. I just provided the options and put them near her. As the proverb goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

So if you completely redefine the theology, you may have a point. If you accept it for what it is, which you must because that's the reality of the situation, your argument is invalidated because your definition of failure does not apply.

Furthermore, you are trying to tell me what God would and wouldn't do, what he wants and how he should use his magical powers. That, my friend, you are making up.

The only reason you're asking why they simply don't pray and why do they need hospitals, is because you've arbitrarily decided how an omnipotent God would operate.

Not to mention that fact that in my first post I agreed that if Christians actually thought that prayer led to direct action from God that they probably would forgo the hospital and simply stay at home to pray. The reason they went to the hospital is BECAUSE they don't think that way.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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10-08-2012, 09:44 PM
RE: God is the best doctor!
God created creative beings and those creative beings developed science and that science lead to doctors and hospitals and pharmaceutical companies. Like Brother Ghost said, God doesn't HAVE to do everything even though he can. It's more fun to let his children do stuff. He intervenes to answer prayer only when human methods won't work OR when he needs to guide the hand of the surgeon. (Don't know how many times I asked God to give the doctors wisdom to know how to heal someone). Christians don't really have a problem with any of the points raised in this thread because they have no problem with the paradox of Free Will working in conjunction with God's Sovereignty. Omnipotent God has not failed at all because he has chosen to sometimes let his minions have a try first.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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11-08-2012, 11:13 AM
RE: God is the best doctor!
Hi Ghost,

Points taken. However, I would point out that when you assume God would present a drowning man with choices in order for that man to accept one or reject them, you too are making stuff up. It makes far more sense to me that, if God was to bother to intervene in the first place in order to save the man, he would simply just do it and not play games with him. Seriously, what are we, just toys in the mind of the god you believe in?

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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11-08-2012, 11:48 AM
RE: God is the best doctor!
Hey, Impulse.

I am not making anything up. Christian theology is. And since this thread is about how Christians should or should not act based on their own theology, that is the only thing that currently matters.

Why would anything about the nature of God make more or less sense to you? You don't believe he exists.

And for the record, I neither believe nor disbelieve in God.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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12-08-2012, 04:37 PM
RE: God is the best doctor!
Ghost,

It is you, not Christian theology that created your posts that I replied to, so yes, it is you that is making stuff up. I realize what you posted is based up Christian theology, but the thoughts themselves came from you. You should at least accept responsibility for those.

The nature of God has been defined by Christianity. It is in that context that it makes more or less sense to me. There was a time that I had faith and was fairly religious so I'm well aware of what it is like to believe in God.

So, if you neither believe nor disbelieve in God, are you agnostic then?

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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12-08-2012, 08:37 PM
RE: God is the best doctor!
Hey, Impulse.

By that rationalle, I just invented 2+2=4. Just because I repeat something doesn't mean I invented something.

You were not reporting, you were inventing. That's what was made up.

I am indeed an Agnostic. Be careful though. If you ask me to go into detail it'll take 20 cantankerous pages to get right back to, "Yup. I'm an Agnostic." Cool

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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13-08-2012, 07:13 AM
RE: God is the best doctor!
(12-08-2012 08:37 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Impulse.

By that rationalle, I just invented 2+2=4. Just because I repeat something doesn't mean I invented something.

You were not reporting, you were inventing. That's what was made up.

I am indeed an Agnostic. Be careful though. If you ask me to go into detail it'll take 20 cantankerous pages to get right back to, "Yup. I'm an Agnostic." Cool

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

I neither believe nor disbelieve Ghost. I'm an agnostic aGhostic.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-08-2012, 08:35 AM
RE: God is the best doctor!
This reminds me of the game my younger siblings play. It's not so a game as a random thing they do. They pick an object across the room and say they're touching it. If you ask them how they say that air is touching them and the object so they must be touching the object.

to make this relevant the air is the doctors, the object is the patient and my sibling is god. so the healing comes from god.

When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.

You cannot successfully determine beforehand which side of the bread to butter.
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