God is the problem of linguistics
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02-11-2015, 10:35 AM
God is the problem of linguistics
So this isn't a debate that I'm having. I was just reading it in a comment section for an article. It's still an active debate currently going on and I haven't decided whether or not I feel like getting involved. The reason I'm posting this is because I've never heard this argument before, that we are limited by our noun based language in describing god. The Theist in the debate claims to have a degree in philosophy. Below I've copy-pasted his stand out comments.

"The Experiential Universe is non-existent and because of that, Experiential Phenomenon is not measurable by the scientific method. The Experiential Universe includes The Mind, Life, Consciousness, Love, Community, Intelligence, Communication, Ideas, Self and of course God. In a way, Atheists are are right, God does not exist, in the same way that Love does not exist, Mind does not exist, Life does not exist, Community does not exist. The problem Atheist have is that they are applying tools to the understanding of God that do not apply to the Experiential Universe. Belief is the only tool that humans have for understanding their own experience. Athiets try to deny belief, but belief is more fundimental to the human condition than reason. Without Belief there is not Reason."

"A degree in Philosophy and 40 years of examination of the subject. My understanding of science and logic is rock solid. Science can measure the Brain, but not the Mind. The connection between the Mind and the Brain can only be explained with Belief. The scientific method does not apply to phenomenon it can not measure."


"you are using your power of belief to explain your own mind. There does not exist any scientific proof that your mind exists. Your mind exists only to you and is not accessable to any other living creature.. Same with Love, same with God."

"God does not exist. God is part of the Experiential Universe, not the Physical Universe. God is not an Object. God is Spirt. God is Intelligence and Consciousness, which can never be measured by science. The discussion of the existence of God is really a problem of linguistics. Our language uses nouns to describe experiential phenomenon when experiential phenomenon is NOT a noun. Experiential Phenomenon is more like a verb. God is Experiential, not Phisical."

"My Belief, my bias, is that the Experiential Universe creates the Physical Universe, not the other way around. Most Atheist believe Experiential Phenomenon is created by the Phisical Universe. That is Humanist belief system. I believe that Evolution is driven by Intelligence and Consciousness, not random events. I believe that Intelligence is encoded in the physical universe. Science is the process of uncovering intelligence manifest in the physical universe."

"Right, God does not exsist, just like your Mind does not exist. Your Mind was created in Gods image, not in the image of your phisical body.The ignorance that most Athiest display is the idea that because the scientific method does not apply to God, that they have proved something. The scientific method does not apply to ANY experienticial phenominonon and experiential phenominon is what YOU are. YOU are not your BODY. YOU are your MIND. YOUR MIND DOES NOT EXIST. The scientific method does not apply to your MIND or to GOD"

"The entire Athiest arguement is based on the limitations of our Noun based language."

"Because we use nouns to describe experiential phenomenon it creates failed form of circular logic. Lets agree that God is not a Noun, just like our Mind, Love, Intelligence, Community and all the other non-things that are most important in the non-thing we call Life. Life does not exist either. There is no such THING as Life."

"Well, I have an advantage in this discussion, YES. I have an understanding of the lingistic flaw in our noun based language that is the basis for the Athiest "belief-system". Unless you understand this limitation of our language, you are not capable of understandind the nature of ALLL experitial phenonominon. So it is sort of an unfair advantage because I have a boruder context that I can put every single one of your arguements into ...."

"The entire Atheist argument is based on appling a noun based language/understanding to experiential phenomenon. Unless you understand that Nouns don't apply to Experiential Phenomenon, you are going to produce failed logic."

"To have a meaningful conversation about the "existence of God", humans need to develop another class of words for describing Experiential Phenomenon. Nouns and Verbs apply to the Physical Universe. Nouns and Verbs do not apply to the Experiential aspect of the Human Experience. There is a fundamental flaw in logic when you apply nouns to the experiential, because the experiential does not exist as a thing. The Atheist argument is simply to point out that God does not exist as a thing/noun only highlights the limitations of language. Nothing more."


At least in his 4th comment posted I can agree that "god doesn't exist". Still is a new argument to me but sounds very flawed.
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02-11-2015, 11:08 AM
RE: God is the problem of linguistics
Sounds like a rehash of Kant's phenomena/noumenon distinction. But for Kant the noumenon does exist as the "thing-in-itself" it is just unknowable to us.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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02-11-2015, 11:58 AM
RE: God is the problem of linguistics
(02-11-2015 11:08 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Sounds like a rehash of Kant's phenomena/noumenon distinction. But for Kant the noumenon does exist as the "thing-in-itself" it is just unknowable to us.

You know some shit Girly, you never cease to amaze me.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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02-11-2015, 12:31 PM
RE: God is the problem of linguistics
That's dumb as fuck. Shouldn't there be a link so we can go tell him that it is dumb as fuck?

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02-11-2015, 12:43 PM
RE: God is the problem of linguistics
I farted.
You can't smell it; but, it's real.
You also can't smell god; so, he's real too.

Facepalm
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02-11-2015, 01:03 PM
RE: God is the problem of linguistics
(02-11-2015 12:31 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  That's dumb as fuck. Shouldn't there be a link so we can go tell him that it is dumb as fuck?

There's a few atheists already tearing into him. And this is in a Facebook page from my phone. So I'm not sure how I could post a link.
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02-11-2015, 02:27 PM
RE: God is the problem of linguistics
(02-11-2015 10:35 AM)OceanTherapist Wrote:  At least in his 4th comment posted I can agree that "god doesn't exist". Still is a new argument to me but sounds very flawed.

I think it's pretty solid argument, and could probably use some simplification, but it does appear to borrow from a variety of points made by others like Nagel's and etc...

I think some atheists philosophers who are squarely on the naturalist side would probably agree with the overall dilemma painted by the poster, like Alex Rosenberg, though he offers some solutions of his own, like appealing to an extremely reductive forms of physicalism.

The problems would be more apparent for those trying to compose a more thoughtful and consistent worldview, for those who have a lot of time on their hand for philosophical navel gazing, the rest of us have bills to pay, children to take care of, and lunch to prepare, to waste our time composing our thoughts that far.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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02-11-2015, 05:45 PM
RE: God is the problem of linguistics
Non-falsifiable claims don't warrant a belief.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

If we came from dust, then why is there still dust?
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02-11-2015, 08:39 PM
RE: God is the problem of linguistics
Ah, more woo. Facepalm

He fails when he makes the entirely unsubstantiated and insupportable claim the science cannot measure mind, etc.

However, he states that God doesn't exist except as a construct of the mind, however he wrongly equivocates mind and mind products.

All in all, his ideas are contradictory and his thesis poorly constructed.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-11-2015, 09:01 PM
RE: God is the problem of linguistics
Woo woo woo.

The fact we are posting ideas shows we are thinking. To paraphrase "I think, therefore I have a mind."

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