God loves the world so much that he/she:
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05-10-2010, 11:48 PM (This post was last modified: 05-10-2010 11:54 PM by No J..)
God loves the world so much that he/she:
God loves his children so much that he/she:

1. Flooded the world and killed just about everything and everyone, including tens of thousands of children and babies, because of a few sinners.

2. Created thousands of diseases that make life hard or unbearable for the victims.

3. Created poisonous creatures that inflict great pain an death on people.

4. Created dangerous weather, such as hurricanes and tornadoes, that destroy towns and cities, leaving people homeless, hurt and dead.

5. Created hell to torture those who need proof of his existence for eternity.

6 Created natural disasters such as earthquakes, tsunamis, avalanches and volcanos that kill hundreds of people every year.

7. Built a universe that is tens of billions of light years across and given us just one planet that is one twenty-first of a light second across.

8. Sent messengers like Billy Graham, Kent Hovind and Kirk Cameron to prove his/her existance.

9. Kept breaking his promise about when he was going to stage the secong coming.

10. Gave us a book that is so full of contradictions that nobody can truly know what it means.
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06-10-2010, 12:26 AM
RE: God loves the world so much that he/she:
I like number 7. A twenty-first of a light second across, eh?

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06-10-2010, 07:23 AM
RE: God loves the world so much that he/she:
Quote:8. Sent messengers like Billy Graham, Kent Hovind and Kirk Cameron to prove his/her existance.
He made a bad choice when he chose those people. But who else would he have chosen?
My conclusion is, that if Yahweh would exist, he'd be just playing with us and probably laughing at the same time.

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08-10-2010, 06:19 PM
 
RE: God loves the world so much that he/she:
Hello forum members. As of this writing, I see that this thread has been open for 2 days now, with 2 replies and about 40 views. I don't really have a constructive retort to No J's post, as it would just be a clash of opinions, but what I do wish to point out is that no one has taken No J. to task for the inaccuracies of his post. I have learned from other posts that many of the forum members here claim to have read the Bible, that they know more about Christianity than self-professed Christians, and claim to search for the truth. Why then, let No J get away with the inaccuracies of his post, even if you are an atheist and even agree with the point he is trying to get across? If someone who was curious about atheism came across this post, wouldn't you at least want that person to make his/her decision based on accurate facts?

Here are the inaccuracies I gleaned from No J's post:

(05-10-2010 11:48 PM)No J. Wrote:  God loves his children so much that he/she:

1. Flooded the world and killed just about everything and everyone, including tens of thousands of children and babies, because of a few sinners.

It was not "because of a few sinners".

Genesis 6:5 "The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time"

Genesis 6:11-12 " Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight and was full of violence. God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways"

That is not "a few sinners." That is "everyone"...except Noah, who according to Genesis 6:9 "...was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God".

And while we are at it, there are instances in the Bible where God spared evil towns, cities, even nations, because of a few righteous people.

Quote:2. Created thousands of diseases that make life hard or unbearable for the victims

3. Created poisonous creatures that inflict great pain an death on people.

4. Created dangerous weather, such as hurricanes and tornadoes, that destroy towns and cities, leaving people homeless, hurt and dead.

6 Created natural disasters such as earthquakes, tsunamis, avalanches and volcanos that kill hundreds of people every year.

7. Built a universe that is tens of billions of light years across and given us just one planet that is one twenty-first of a light second across.

Can't refute that. Mostly because these are objective statements that are not injected with your subjective conclusions.

Quote:5. Created hell to torture those who need proof of his existence for eternity.

You know why God created hell? And that's the reason? That would contradict the biblical representation of God. He is not spiteful, he is just. Seems logical to me that those who choose not to believe in him are not forced to spend an eternity with him.

Quote:8. Sent messengers like Billy Graham, Kent Hovind and Kirk Cameron to prove his/her existance.

God proved his existence way before any of these people were born. But I'll let this one slide since I depict some humor/sarcasm and I can appreciate that.

Quote:9. Kept breaking his promise about when he was going to stage the secong coming
.

The only promise I heard from him was that Jesus is coming back again, and it just hasn't happened yet. If you're talking about about what the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses claim, then rag on them, not God.

Quote:10. Gave us a book that is so full of contradictions that nobody can truly know what it means.

I've commented on this before, but the Bible has stood up for thousands of years, and not one of these supposed contradictions can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. A lot of them are due to misunderstandings, or lack of information. A small percentage (0.3-0.5%) are translation or transcribing errors on some texts. But none of these errors change the salvation message of the Bible.
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09-10-2010, 07:16 AM
 
RE: God loves the world so much that he/she:
(08-10-2010 06:19 PM)BarleyMcFlexo Wrote:  
Quote:2. Created thousands of diseases that make life hard or unbearable for the victims

3. Created poisonous creatures that inflict great pain an death on people.

4. Created dangerous weather, such as hurricanes and tornadoes, that destroy towns and cities, leaving people homeless, hurt and dead.

6 Created natural disasters such as earthquakes, tsunamis, avalanches and volcanos that kill hundreds of people every year.

7. Built a universe that is tens of billions of light years across and given us just one planet that is one twenty-first of a light second across.

Can't refute that. Mostly because these are objective statements that are not injected with your subjective conclusions.



Quote:8. Sent messengers like Billy Graham, Kent Hovind and Kirk Cameron to prove his/her existance.

God proved his existence way before any of these people were born.

How exactly has God proved his existence? And why aren't these people messiahs if they have claimed to have heard God's word? Why does this word differ so much culture to culture?

And you can't refute those things, thankfully. Especially the last one- it is the result of observation based on the scientific method, the same method that has made religion completely unnecessary and obsolete.

And if you can't deny that all those sufferings placed on man, how exactly are those not contradictory to the statement "God loves us?"
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09-10-2010, 06:01 PM
RE: God loves the world so much that he/she:
Hey, No. J.

I'm not sure I understand the intent of the thread. Is this an argument against God loving humans or is it an argument against God?

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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09-10-2010, 08:23 PM
 
RE: God loves the world so much that he/she:
(08-10-2010 06:19 PM)BarleyMcFlexo Wrote:  no one has taken No J. to task for the inaccuracies of his post.

Probably because from an atheist perspective, his post just ain't that inaccurate. We've already removed those darn god-colored glasses and can now see past the fear and anxiety that thinking anything anti-belief used to produce.

(08-10-2010 06:19 PM)BarleyMcFlexo Wrote:  Here are the inaccuracies I gleaned from No J's post:

It was not "because of a few sinners".

The Bible also says that "all men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." Apparently except Noah. Is this not a contradiction?

God seems to change his mind between the old and new testaments about what kind of sin a person can commit and still be called righteous. The rules seem to be a bit more strict after Jesus came along.

Quote:You know why God created hell? And that's the reason? That would contradict the biblical representation of God. He is not spiteful, he is just. Seems logical to me that those who choose not to believe in him are not forced to spend an eternity with him.

For one, that representation of hell would unfortunately not contradict the representation of god in the old testament.

God limits human justice in the old testament to "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." Why does the white lie I told in seventh grade damn me to eternal hell? Isn't this a contradiction?

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death." Rev. 21:8

Sulphur's boiling point is 832 degrees F, BTW. This is justice for my 12-year-old sin?

Quote:9. Kept breaking his promise about when he was going to stage the secong coming.

The only promise I heard from him was that Jesus is coming back again, and it just hasn't happened yet. If you're talking about about what the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses claim, then rag on them, not God.

Quote:the Bible has stood up for thousands of years, and not one of these supposed contradictions can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Genesis 1:11 God created plants the third day
Genesis 1:24 God creates animals on the sixth day, before man and woman.

Genesis 2:5 God creates man before the plants and trees (even assuming that he was a vegetarian since death had not entered the world yet)
Genesis 2:19 God creates animals after man.

CONTRADICTION on pages 1 and 2. Shall we go on, or did I just misunderstand?
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10-10-2010, 05:44 AM
 
RE: God loves the world so much that he/she:
(09-10-2010 07:16 AM)TruthAddict Wrote:  How exactly has God proved his existence? And why aren't these people messiahs if they have claimed to have heard God's word? Why does this word differ so much culture to culture?

Good catch! I actually misspoke. I should have said "God gave evidence for his existence way before these people were born". You and I see the same evidence, we are just interpreting it differently. Thanks for bringing that up!

Quote:And if you can't deny that all those sufferings placed on man, how exactly are those not contradictory to the statement "God loves us?"

I've talked about this before, but briefly...

God is loving, but he is also just. Perfectly so. So when God clearly explained to Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree, and clearly warned them that they would DIE if they did so, how could he go back on his word? That would make him a liar. And so Adam and Eve caused death (and everything related to it - disease, blights, dangerous and poisonous animals, violent weather, etc.) to enter the world.

"Love" does not equate "make everyone happy and give them what they want all the time". Discipline is not very fun for the person being disciplined, but a great sign of love by the person administering it. If you have kids, think about why you discipline them. It's most likely for one or many of these reasons: you know better than they do, you want to teach them, it's for their own good, to protect them, because you had to follow through on your warning, etc.

I would recommend that you read this piece from the Answers in Genesis website (actually, I recommend you read everything on the site and watch the videos, but for now let's just concentrate on this article by Tim Chaffey). He explains the misrepresentation of God's character much better than I ever could.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles...vindictive
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10-10-2010, 08:07 AM
RE: God loves the world so much that he/she:
Always this convienience of misrepresentation, context, misinterpretation, perspective, contradictions that are not proven "beyond a shadow of a doubt", so they must not be (Not even sure how you can say that one), translation errors.....the list goes on. So many excuses. If you have to say all these things, make all these excuses, doesn't it at least make you question what you believe?

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10-10-2010, 08:32 AM
RE: God loves the world so much that he/she:
Quote:So when God clearly explained to Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree, and clearly warned them that they would DIE if they did so, how could he go back on his word? That would make him a liar. And so Adam and Eve caused death (and everything related to it - disease, blights, dangerous and poisonous animals, violent weather, etc.) to enter the world.
But YHWH already knew they're going to eat of the tree. Isn't he all-knowing? He could have made it so that they would'nt have eaten the damn fruity fruit from the tree, but he wanted death and suffering to come upon the world?
The answers in genesis link Wrote:The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.1

I would start my response by pointing out the hypocritical nature of the attack. Since Dawkins is so adamant in his atheism, perhaps he could explain why any of these things are wrong from an evolutionary point of view.
Maybe this or his books?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCL63d66frs
Quote:After all, if his philosophical naturalistic beliefs are correct, then there is no such thing as right or wrong. Hence, there would be nothing bad about any of these attributes he assigns to the God of the Bible. Only the Bible provides the basis for morality, so it is hypocritical and illogical for Dawkins or other atheists to appeal to morality while attacking Scripture.
Maybe this?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxdgCxK4VUA

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