God loves the world so much that he/she:
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10-10-2010, 09:55 AM
RE: God loves the world so much that he/she:
(08-10-2010 06:19 PM)BarleyMcFlexo Wrote:  
Quote:9. Kept breaking his promise about when he was going to stage the secong coming
.

The only promise I heard from him was that Jesus is coming back again, and it just hasn't happened yet. If you're talking about about what the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses claim, then rag on them, not God.
I just came to this thread for the first time today, and noted that nobody has yet pointed out that Jesus told his followers that he would return in their lifetimes - nearly 2000 years ago.

Then in the Book of Revelations, Jesus apparently told John that the battle would be waged on a mountain called Megiddo. This battle would herald the second coming. He also mentioned scrolls and what not, but we no longer use scrolls and there is no Megiddo mountain. There's a town, and planes, but no mountain.

Since then, numerous of his peeps have told us that Jesus came to them and said he'd be back on a specific day. He never showed. Just sayin'.
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10-10-2010, 08:04 PM
RE: God loves the world so much that he/she:
so this god you speak of...you say he CANT go back on his word? otherwise he would be a liar? interesting...
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11-10-2010, 08:30 AM
 
RE: God loves the world so much that he/she:
Quote:I just came to this thread for the first time today, and noted that nobody has yet pointed out that Jesus told his followers that he would return in their lifetimes - nearly 2000 years ago.

Then in the Book of Revelations, Jesus apparently told John that the battle would be waged on a mountain called Megiddo. This battle would herald the second coming. He also mentioned scrolls and what not, but we no longer use scrolls and there is no Megiddo mountain. There's a town, and planes, but no mountain.

Since then, numerous of his peeps have told us that Jesus came to them and said he'd be back on a specific day. He never showed. Just sayin'.

Christians usually interpret the word "kingdom" in these verses to mean the equivalent of "the church" which they believe was set up in the time of those listening, so I don't know if this one would convince them.
(10-10-2010 08:04 PM)sosa Wrote:  so this god you speak of...you say he CANT go back on his word? otherwise he would be a liar? interesting...

Very interesting. Is someone who can't go back on his word omnipotent?
Quote:"Love" does not equate "make everyone happy and give them what they want all the time". Discipline is not very fun for the person being disciplined, but a great sign of love by the person administering it. If you have kids, think about why you discipline them. It's most likely for one or many of these reasons: you know better than they do, you want to teach them, it's for their own good, to protect them, because you had to follow through on your warning, etc.

Justice denotes a punishment equal to the crime committed. What sin could I possibly commit that would be equally punishable by a stint in the lake of burning sulphur? Is this really justice?

The entire point of discipline is to change behavior. What point would discipline after permanent death serve, where behavior can never be amended? "Punishment" is a much better description. Punishment and discipline are very different.

If God is all-knowing, he knew that mankind would fall into sin and death. Can't it be said then that he first created sinners and then punished them?
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11-10-2010, 02:21 PM
 
RE: God loves the world so much that he/she:
(10-10-2010 08:07 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Always this convienience of misrepresentation, context, misinterpretation, perspective, contradictions that are not proven "beyond a shadow of a doubt", so they must not be (Not even sure how you can say that one), translation errors.....the list goes on. So many excuses. If you have to say all these things, make all these excuses, doesn't it at least make you question what you believe?

Hey Stark. I always appreciate your comments. They are well thought out and you deliver them with what I perceive to be a respectful attitude.

I don't see these as excuses. I have many people on this forum come to me one by one to explain this and explain that. I just don't see how answering their questions is making excuses. And for every "error" or "contradiction" that others bring up, I have a similar amount of evidence that satisfies me that there is a God, the the Bible is his word and true, and that I can have eternal life with him. Of course I question what I believe. How else can I learn and grow? Did you question yourself the first time you accepted to the theory of evolution, or decided not to believe that there is a god? If you didn't, I would respectfully suggest that you do so right now!
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11-10-2010, 02:30 PM
 
RE: God loves the world so much that he/she:
(11-10-2010 02:21 PM)BarleyMcFlexo Wrote:  
(10-10-2010 08:07 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Always this convienience of misrepresentation, context, misinterpretation, perspective, contradictions that are not proven "beyond a shadow of a doubt", so they must not be (Not even sure how you can say that one), translation errors.....the list goes on. So many excuses. If you have to say all these things, make all these excuses, doesn't it at least make you question what you believe?

Hey Stark. I always appreciate your comments. They are well thought out and you deliver them with what I perceive to be a respectful attitude.

I don't see these as excuses. I have many people on this forum come to me one by one to explain this and explain that. I just don't see how answering their questions is making excuses. And for every "error" or "contradiction" that others bring up, I have a similar amount of evidence that satisfies me that there is a God, the the Bible is his word and true, and that I can have eternal life with him. Of course I question what I believe. How else can I learn and grow? Did you question yourself the first time you accepted to the theory of evolution, or decided not to believe that there is a god? If you didn't, I would respectfully suggest that you do so right now!

We don't really have to question the theory of evolution as non-biologists. Unlike religion, science is an active field of scrutiny. And it is open to modification based upon observation. Observations themselves are not dependent on the general doctrine, like religion.

Evolution is supported by mountains of evidence. And other biologists will question the theory if it needs questioning.

Please share with us your "evidence" for God.
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11-10-2010, 02:46 PM
 
RE: God loves the world so much that he/she:
(09-10-2010 08:23 PM)athnostic Wrote:  Probably because from an atheist perspective, his post just ain't that inaccurate. We've already removed those darn god-colored glasses and can now see past the fear and anxiety that thinking anything anti-belief used to produce.

Hello Athnostic! So you still think that No J's claim that God sent the flood "because of a few sinners" is accurate? I could read the Bible through any colored lenses and it will still not say that.

Quote:The Bible also says that "all men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." Apparently except Noah. Is this not a contradiction?

God seems to change his mind between the old and new testaments about what kind of sin a person can commit and still be called righteous. The rules seem to be a bit more strict after Jesus came along.

I don't think it is a contradiction, but I can see how you might, probably because of your definition of "righteous". "Righteous" does not = "sinless". True, most people called righteous will tend to sin less than the average person, but there is not one sin over another that determines righteousness. And about your comment that God changed his mind. In this case I say he didn't. It's like if I say "George Bush and Barack Obama are terrible presidents". They are two different people, from different parties, different ideologies, different strengths and weaknesses. But I am defining them with the same word. Did I change my mind on what a "terrible president" is? No, I just think each is terrible in his own way. Some reasons are the same, and some are different. That does not invalidate my opinion (whether someone else agrees with it or not).

Quote:God limits human justice in the old testament to "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." Why does the white lie I told in seventh grade damn me to eternal hell? Isn't this a contradiction?

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death." Rev. 21:8

Sulphur's boiling point is 832 degrees F, BTW. This is justice for my 12-year-old sin?

A person does not go to hell because of one sin, two sins, a million sins, small sins, big sins, long sins or short sins. A person goes to hell because he/she does not go to heaven. A person does not go to heaven because they do not believe in Jesus. Now this is where the gospel gets skewered. "Believe in" does not mean having the knowledge that Jesus existed, died on the cross and rose to heaven. What does "believing in" something mean? How will you feel? How will you act? Chances are, if you “believe in” anything, you will study it, learn from it, and make it the number one priority in your life. Your actions will reflect your belief. I don’t know if you are going to hell. I hope you don’t! Jesus is the ultimate judge. If he does send you to hell, it’s because you didn’t do what he told you to do to have eternal life with him. The nature of the punishment is irrelevant. I believe that anyone who knows what he/she must do to get something, and knows the consequences of not doing it, does not have the right to question those consequences when he/she does not do it.

Quote:the Bible has stood up for thousands of years, and not one of these supposed contradictions can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Genesis 1:11 God created plants the third day
Genesis 1:24 God creates animals on the sixth day, before man and woman.

Genesis 2:5 God creates man before the plants and trees (even assuming that he was a vegetarian since death had not entered the world yet)
Genesis 2:19 God creates animals after man.

CONTRADICTION on pages 1 and 2. Shall we go on, or did I just misunderstand?

We can go on till the cows come home (or until the new Heaven and New Earth appear Wink), but I don't think you or I would have the time. When I read this the first time, I was confused too. But just like the first time I read about the Krebs cycle in my AP Biology book and didn't understand a thing and was terribly confused, I reread it, studied it, asked questions, and finally understood it, and it made perfect sense to me.
According to the Bible, God created the vegetation, then animals, then humans. That's what Genesis 1 says. It is chronological with a clear timeline. The confusion comes with Genesis 2, which is the same account, but in more detail, focusing on day 6. Call it the "behind the scenes" account. It is not a different account. Because the author mentions the vegetation and animals after man, the reader assumes that they occurred after man was created. Two things: Genesis 2 is not meant to be a chronological account. That was already done in Genesis 1. Second, the confusion arrives with the translation of the Hebrew word for "formed". Some bibles (apparently the one you are sourcing from) use the past tense of the word. Since the phrase happens later, the reader assumes the event happened later. My Bible uses the correct past perfect tense (“had formed”), which correctly places the events in the chapter 1 order. But, even if the bible used the past tense, you could still see the correct order from chapter 1. For example, if I say: “Barack Obama was elected president, and George Washington was elected president,” would you then think that GW was elected after BO? No, you use your knowledge and information from other sources to correctly deduce that first came GW, then BO. However, my sentence was still 100% factual.

Good questions, Athnostic. I hope I clarified some things for you today!
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11-10-2010, 02:50 PM
RE: God loves the world so much that he/she:
Genesis 1 and 2 still contradict each other on the issue of when and how woman was created.
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11-10-2010, 02:51 PM
 
RE: God loves the world so much that he/she:
(11-10-2010 02:30 PM)TruthAddict Wrote:  Please share with us your "evidence" for God.

My evidence is the same as your evidence. I say it points to God, you say it points to something else. The evidence itself is the same. It is what we observe. You, me, animals, the earth, galaxy, fossils, etc. The most important evidence to me is the bible.

Thanks for asking!
(11-10-2010 02:50 PM)gamutman Wrote:  Genesis 1 and 2 still contradict each other on the issue of when and how woman was created.

Chapter 1 says God created humans (male & female) on day 6. It does not say how they were created, other than God did it.

Chapter 2 tells us how humans (male & female) were created. Nothing in chapter 2 refutes that this happened on day 6.

Why do you think the two chapters contradict each other on the issue of when and how woman was created?
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11-10-2010, 03:02 PM
 
Rainbow RE: God loves the world so much that he/she:
Quote:God loves the world so much that he/she...
Gave birth to atheists, so as to provide the evidence that supports the point of "no god", a name and many many different personages, so as to smile in the face of the faithful bearing scabbed knees, and devout disappointment, while trying to come to terms with how depraved indifference became that four letter word accompanying a three letter sadistic ideology. love...god.
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11-10-2010, 03:10 PM
 
RE: God loves the world so much that he/she:
(11-10-2010 03:02 PM)GassyKitten Wrote:  
Quote:God loves the world so much that he/she...
Gave birth to atheists, so as to provide the evidence that supports the point of "no god", a name and many many different personages, so as to smile in the face of the faithful bearing scabbed knees, and devout disappointment, while trying to come to terms with how depraved indifference became that four letter word accompanying a three letter sadistic ideology. love...god.

Gassy,

I couldn't quite follow what you said (my fault, not yours), but thanks for steering this thread back to it's original subject!
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