God metaphor with babies
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06-12-2016, 04:02 PM
God metaphor with babies
This was given in a sheet of paper to a class of last year high school students in Western Europe, in the religions subject:

Conversation of 2 twins in utero:

- And you, do you believe in life after birth?

- Of course. It's obvious that life after birth exists. We are here to become strong and to prepare for what is waiting for us next.

- Pfff... all that, makes no sense. There's nothing after birth! What would a life look like outside the belly?

- Well, there's a lot of stories about "the other side"... They say that there, there is a lot of light, emotions and happiness and a bunch of things to live... For example, it seems that there we will eat with our mouths.

- Bullshit! We have our umbilical cord and thats what feeds us. We dont eat through the mouth! And there has never been someone who came back from birth, so all those are stories of naive people. Life ends simply at birth. Thats how it is, you have to accept it.

- Well, allow me to think otherwise. I dont know what this life after birth will look like, and I wont be able to prove you anything. But I like to think that we will see Mother and she will take care of us.

- Mother!??? You believe in Mother? Where is she then?

- She is everywhere! She's around us and its thanks to her that we live right now. Without her we wouldn't be here.

- Thats absurd! I have never seen a Mother so its obvious that she doesnt exist.

- I disagree, thats your point of view. Because, sometimes, when we are calm, we can hear when she sings... We can feel it when she pets our world... Im certain that our life will begin after birth.

What do you think about this? Its clearly a defense on the existance of God.
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06-12-2016, 04:12 PM
RE: God metaphor with babies
(06-12-2016 04:02 PM)Jokurix Wrote:  This was given in a sheet of paper to a class of last year high school students in Western Europe, in the religions subject:

Conversation of 2 twins in utero:

- And you, do you believe in life after birth?

- Of course. It's obvious that life after birth exists. We are here to become strong and to prepare for what is waiting for us next.

- Pfff... all that, makes no sense. There's nothing after birth! What would a life look like outside the belly?

- Well, there's a lot of stories about "the other side"... They say that there, there is a lot of light, emotions and happiness and a bunch of things to live... For example, it seems that there we will eat with our mouths.

- Bullshit! We have our umbilical cord and thats what feeds us. We dont eat through the mouth! And there has never been someone who came back from birth, so all those are stories of naive people. Life ends simply at birth. Thats how it is, you have to accept it.

- Well, allow me to think otherwise. I dont know what this life after birth will look like, and I wont be able to prove you anything. But I like to think that we will see Mother and she will take care of us.

- Mother!??? You believe in Mother? Where is she then?

- She is everywhere! She's around us and its thanks to her that we live right now. Without her we wouldn't be here.

- Thats absurd! I have never seen a Mother so its obvious that she doesnt exist.

- I disagree, thats your point of view. Because, sometimes, when we are calm, we can hear when she sings... We can feel it when she pets our world... Im certain that our life will begin after birth.

What do you think about this? Its clearly a defense on the existance of God.

I think it's a flawed metaphor, if the mother sang, both children could hear it, because it's sound waves, not perception.

The mother is actually real and can do things that would have an effect inside the womb, the mother is unaware of this conversation these babies are having, so there is no communication, this is not the case with this alleged god. There is nothing but silence when asked directly about it's existence, but there is a chorus of humans telling us that THEIR version is the correct one.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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06-12-2016, 04:24 PM
RE: God metaphor with babies
Oh Jebus Facepalm This almost makes me miss the fish metaphor Tongue

Like Inquisition said, there are so many gods--a billion--and many more being created by humans every day. This metaphor doesn't work because depending on which year, area of the planet, culture, and upbringing these babies are being born into, those factors alone will determine which god(s) they end up believing in. Religion is not innate, it is a learned behavior.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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06-12-2016, 04:46 PM
RE: God metaphor with babies
This is an outdated meme that circulated Facebook for years. Hilarious. Also, the mother doesn't throw the nonbeleiving baby into the oven for not believing she is real.

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
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06-12-2016, 10:17 PM
God metaphor with babies
It's just another idiocy that is supposed to sound reasonable. And it may to those already indoctrinated.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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06-12-2016, 10:32 PM
RE: God metaphor with babies
Wait, this again? Didn't we just have this?

.... yeah, here we go. Huh, April 2015. Further back than I thought.

At the risk of angering the Mods, I'll copy-paste my post from that thread:

*********

All in all, a terrible analogy.

One empirical means for these oddly-intelligent twins to tell what's going on, as you point out, would be audio cues. Studies show that a significant amount of sound penetrates the womb, which shapes speech patterns even before birth. These would be verifiable to both twins, with them able (with their exaggerated abilities to communicate) to point the sounds in question out to each other.

The existence of the outside, objectively experienced phenomenon within the sphere of the senses makes this is a very bad analogy for belief in the existence of some sort of god.

Note also what this scenario with its strangely talkative fetuses does NOT contain:

Commandments to hate your gay twins.
Commandments to stone your twins to death for various crimes.
Commandments to donate 10% of your wealth to the people saying that there's life after birth, or else.
Commandments to behave or believe in this or that or the other way, or suffer for it in your post-birth life.
Any educational or society institutions for believers to corrupt or undermine as a consequence of their belief.

This makes fetal belief in a mother an even poorer analogy for Christianity, because here it is a purely academic question. Nothing is riding on it at all. On the one hand, incorrectly denying carries no consequences beyond birth. On the other, incorrectly believing causes no harm to yourself or others prior to birth.

... and, of course, you chose your example as something where we KNEW that the skeptic was wrong. If we'd instead chosen the example of, say, cattle debating their potentially bright future as they were herded into the slaughter house, the moral of the story would be quite different. What's lacking here is any evidence one way or the other as to WHICH metaphor (if either) is the more accurate one.
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07-12-2016, 08:46 AM
RE: God metaphor with babies
When those babies are in the slightest trouble, that mother will do everything in her power to help them through it and see to their well-being. On the other hand, with gawd... cancer, AIDS, muscular dystrophy, congenital blindness and deafness, microcephaly, cerebral palsy, down syndrome, cystic fibrosis, mental illness, quadriplegia,... gawd supposedly has the power to cure all and yet does nothing.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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07-12-2016, 08:51 AM
RE: God metaphor with babies
(06-12-2016 04:02 PM)Jokurix Wrote:  What do you think about this? Its clearly a defense on the existance of God.

Reads like a satirical statement on religion to me.

#sigh
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07-12-2016, 09:02 AM
RE: God metaphor with babies
Wait, I DO see the similarity now. Talking snakes and talking fetuses. Same absurdity! It's uncanny! Ohmy

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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07-12-2016, 09:17 AM
RE: God metaphor with babies
Again - we see why a theist would find such a metaphor plausable.

An unborn baby is their intellectual peer.....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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