God? or God?
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04-06-2014, 12:13 PM
God? or God?
When I say I don't believe in God...I mean God of the bible...I don't believe anything in the bible or and religious view of it.
But....God? Is there one that rules the universe? Not personal intervention...that's just stupid, but, keeps the planets and suns in line? Created other worlds like ours?
I find it hard to believe that everything happened by accident....especially on our planet's animal world. Animals live in perfect harmony: no jealously, envy, bitterness, etc. Then we came along and we aren't anything like the other animals.....Is there a God that created the world with all the animals on it? Were we put here for experimentation? if so, we are failing terribly!!!!!!!!

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04-06-2014, 12:15 PM
RE: God? or God?
(04-06-2014 12:13 PM)justauntb Wrote:  When I say I don't believe in God...I mean God of the bible...I don't believe anything in the bible or and religious view of it.
But....God? Is there one that rules the universe? Not personal intervention...that's just stupid, but, keeps the planets and suns in line? Created other worlds like ours?
I find it hard to believe that everything happened by accident....especially on our planet's animal world. Animals live in perfect harmony: no jealously, envy, bitterness, etc. Then we came along and we aren't anything like the other animals.....Is there a God that created the world with all the animals on it? Were we put here for experimentation? if so, we are failing terribly!!!!!!!!



Read. Read everything you can get your hands on - both physically in the palms of your hands AND online. Read.
Then go read some more.
Figure out What God IS and what God is NOT..............
for yourself.


If you find you Still are looking for something or someone who Put everything HERE.......


go read again.


Thumbsup

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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04-06-2014, 12:39 PM
RE: God? or God?
Thread moved from Personal Issues & Support as no specific help or support was requested in the OP.

If anyone disagrees... bite me!

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04-06-2014, 01:37 PM
RE: God? or God?
(04-06-2014 12:13 PM)justauntb Wrote:  When I say I don't believe in God...I mean God of the bible...I don't believe anything in the bible or and religious view of it.
But....God? Is there one that rules the universe? Not personal intervention...that's just stupid, but, keeps the planets and suns in line? Created other worlds like ours?
I find it hard to believe that everything happened by accident....especially on our planet's animal world. Animals live in perfect harmony: no jealously, envy, bitterness, etc. Then we came along and we aren't anything like the other animals.....Is there a God that created the world with all the animals on it? Were we put here for experimentation? if so, we are failing terribly!!!!!!!!

Short answer? No evidence to show there is, and as such no good reason to believe there is.

Also we have explanations for how planets and suns form and are kept "in line" as we'll as for bio-diversification and most other subjects you raised.

There is little to no room in any of it to shove a god or gods.
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04-06-2014, 01:40 PM
RE: God? or God?
(04-06-2014 12:39 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Thread moved from Personal Issues & Support as no specific help or support was requested in the OP.

If anyone disagrees... bite me!

What? And mar that perfect rump? Never!

OP: animals hardly live in harmony - they EAT each other. We too are animals and we too EAT other animals *and* in some circumstances each other (although it's generally regarded as a bit weird to do so).

Planets don't go round and round in perfect ellipses for eternity either - they do things like spiralling into their suns, getting ripped apart by gravitational stuff or getting into severe arguments with neighbouring celestial bodies.

The complexity of the natural world is indeed a most beautiful and wonderful thing, and it *does* fit together very well, and things operate with amazing precision and delicate balance. This used to be a very powerful argument for a deistic creator. However now we are more knowledgeable and we have several powerful theories (powerful meaning they have predictive power) which can easily explain the origin of the marvellous life that we see all around us without the need to reference a creator.

You may well ask "well, but, surely there's no need to *remove* the creator" and yes, we could have a scientific theory that sort of explained a certain amount and then had a bit with "and the magic happens here" and then continued. The problem is that ascribing stuff to magic... well one principle which is used as an overarching guide in building a theory is that of Occam's razor, named for William of Occam (alt spelling Ockham IIRC), which effectively says that we shouldn't introduce extraneous stuff into our theories. Since our theories work perfectly well without a creator, we don't stick one in just for shits and giggles.

Now, we have theories which have no creator. We *don't* know that no creator exists, but the fact that we can explain pretty much everything we see in the physical world *without* appeal to a creator kinda lends strength to the idea that perhaps there isn't one at all. It certainly seems like a bit of a crazy idea. I mean, it could be green psychotic nano-scale goblins who have an intense fear of electron microscopes and all equipment designed to detect them who are running the show, but you can't take that idea seriously right? Same goes for a creator. It's the same class of idea. It's an idea for which we have no evidence so it's precisely as good in terms of explanatory power, as a green psychotic nano-scale goblin.

Apologies for the length of the post...

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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04-06-2014, 01:41 PM
RE: God? or God?
How many gods human invented that I don't believe in ?
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04-06-2014, 01:45 PM
RE: God? or God?
(04-06-2014 12:13 PM)justauntb Wrote:  When I say I don't believe in God...I mean God of the bible...I don't believe anything in the bible or and religious view of it.
But....God? Is there one that rules the universe? Not personal intervention...that's just stupid, but, keeps the planets and suns in line? Created other worlds like ours?
I find it hard to believe that everything happened by accident....especially on our planet's animal world. Animals live in perfect harmony: no jealously, envy, bitterness, etc. Then we came along and we aren't anything like the other animals.....Is there a God that created the world with all the animals on it? Were we put here for experimentation? if so, we are failing terribly!!!!!!!!

Oh my goodness. This is what happens when you start thinking in mid stream without a good starting point of essential principles. We are different from all other animals because we have a conceptual faculty that the other animals don't have. We don't act on instinct, our conceptual faculty does not operate automatically it is volitional. We have to make choices and that means we can choose badly especially when we don't use said conceptual faculty properly like taking things on faith instead of following reason.

Of course the universe didn't happen by accident. There is no chance in nature if "chance" means uncaused actions. Everything happens because of the law of causality, entities acting according to their nature and natural laws.


We know from our observations of nature that the natural laws are fully sufficient to keep things in line. Do you really think there is a conscious being running around making sure the speed of light stays constant and our math equations work out the way they are supposed to?

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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04-06-2014, 01:52 PM
RE: God? or God?
(04-06-2014 01:45 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Do you really think there is a conscious being running around making sure the speed of light stays constant and our math equations work out the way they are supposed to?

Have you not heard of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? It seems that you are touched by his noodly appendage 'cos that's practically straight out of scripture.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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04-06-2014, 01:57 PM
RE: God? or God?
(04-06-2014 01:52 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(04-06-2014 01:45 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Do you really think there is a conscious being running around making sure the speed of light stays constant and our math equations work out the way they are supposed to?

Have you not heard of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? It seems that you are touched by his noodly appendage 'cos that's practically straight out of scripture.

Oh, yeah I forgot about him. Never mind.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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04-06-2014, 02:40 PM
RE: God? or God?
(04-06-2014 12:13 PM)justauntb Wrote:  When I say I don't believe in God...I mean God of the bible...I don't believe anything in the bible or and religious view of it.
But....God? Is there one that rules the universe? Not personal intervention...that's just stupid, but, keeps the planets and suns in line? Created other worlds like ours?
I find it hard to believe that everything happened by accident....especially on our planet's animal world. Animals live in perfect harmony: no jealously, envy, bitterness, etc. Then we came along and we aren't anything like the other animals.....Is there a God that created the world with all the animals on it? Were we put here for experimentation? if so, we are failing terribly!!!!!!!!
As morondog pointed out, animals certainly do not live in harmony. And how is it that you think we aren't ANYTHING like other animals? Consider We have a head, body, 2 arms and 2 legs. We have a brain, ears, eyes, nose, and mouth. We eat, digest, and excrete waste. We reproduce sexually which also means we have males and females. All of that is also true for MANY animals (probably most mammals) as are so many more characteristics that I didn't just mention. I'm far harder pressed to come up with differences - most of which revolve around higher brain capacity and higher social functions.

We are getting closer and closer all the time to explaining how life formed on this planet without any deity. The same is true for how the universe began without any deity. There is no evidence whatsoever for any god. "I don't understand how all this can be" is simply an observation of what we don't know, not a reason to arbitrarily insert "god" (whatever "god" means exactly anyway).

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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