God or Nothing
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21-05-2012, 07:17 AM (This post was last modified: 22-05-2012 06:03 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: God or Nothing
One wonders, now that Said has embaced Buddhism, whether Said's family also is becoming Buddhist or whether Said is planning on a trip to Tibet or India, to futher delineate which branch of Buddism Said will identify with.





http://www.sciencenews.org/view/feature/..._Awareness

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16...brain.html

http://www.lcps.org/site/default.aspx?Pa...1&PageID=1

http://www.astraldynamics.com/home/obe-t...sness.html


One of the assumptions in all of these discussions, seems to be that there exists 100% "control" over the "consciousness", (from which arises the falacious notion of "free will"). That has been proven false, in more than one place. There has, as yet, been provided, NOT ONE piece of evidence, that consciousness is anything OTHER, than an aspect of (physical) brain activity.








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21-05-2012, 09:57 AM
RE: God or Nothing
(21-05-2012 03:08 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(20-05-2012 08:22 PM)lightninlives Wrote:  I'm not ashamed to admit that I often enjoy imagining what your reaction will be to these comments of yours, Egor, when/if you become an atheist.

You've come such a long way, and yet it seems like you put a herculean amount of effort into rationalizing just to preserve the intellectual equivalent of a human appendix. Your new and improved approach to life and treating people doesn't require a god concept in any way shape or form. Seems almost like a security blanket of sorts.

It's all good, though. Nice thread.


You don't get it: there's more to this universe than you've imagined in your atheism. Atheism is a capitulation. There are things like precognition, NDEs, protozoan consciousness, and the very consciousness of human beings and other animals, not to mention instincts, and other things that point to something other than a soley material universe. It's not enough just to deny these things.

Second, my definition of God, the monistic fundamental consciousness, is not a security blanket. To come to a full awareness of what that definition means, requires one to give up all the comforts of religion.

I am not an atheist. I never will be, but God is not something I can fully comprehend, and the lessons I seem predestine to learn in this life are not easy ones. Nor are they for you. There may come a time when I just don't care anymore, when God is something I stop worrying about, but I'll never be an atheist. Even now, I know that the lucid spiritual plane awaits, and beyond that a union with God--but a union with God, if God is the monistic fundamental consciousness, is the same thing as not existing anymore--by then, Edward Gordon will be gone, and even more: all the lives I've lead will be gone and I will come to realize that I have always been the monistic entity of fundamental consciousness--just as you are. Where is the security blanket in all of that?
Watch this: No, Igor, you don't get it.

Now where did that get us? The answer is nowhere, which is exactly what happened when you made that assertion to me above.

But hey, at least you've admitted that you currently carry the burden of an absolutist stance (e.g. "I am not an atheist, I will never be"). In other words, unlike myself (and most of the atheists on this forum) no amount of evidence or reason will persuade you to move away from your current stance.

Now we're getting somewhere...

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21-05-2012, 10:31 AM (This post was last modified: 22-05-2012 06:01 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: God or Nothing
(21-05-2012 09:57 AM)lightninlives Wrote:  the burden of an absolutist stance (e.g. "I am not an atheist, I will never be"). In other words, unlike myself (and most of the atheists on this forum) no amount of evidence or reason will persuade you to move away from your current stance.

Now we're getting somewhere...


This poster has always had this gnawing "awareness" that what Said is (may be) really talking about when Said says "atheist", and "atheism", is not really the intelectual postion of "atheism", but instead a visceral emotional response to ... "something", (perhaps a sort of deeply implanted, and unexamined response to a "totally unacceptable, 'other', or 'otherness' ", ? the "Dark Side" ) which Said responds to, in a Pavlovian sense. It's not really a rational process.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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21-05-2012, 03:59 PM
 
RE: God or Nothing
(21-05-2012 04:33 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Because that is what man is like. We try to make sense of things that at the time we cannot make sense of.
The truth is we don't know what was before the big bang (I haven't read to much into the big bang but even I think that theory of a big bang is a little sketchy. I really should read into more however), we don't know why we have come to be other then how we came to be. Science can answer how it is possible we came to be, but not why. But just like the world hundreds of years ago, maybe we just don't really know.
Yet.

Of course we don't "know." That's why we're here discussing it. That's why we take what we can observe and try to use logical reasoning to connect the dots.
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21-05-2012, 04:19 PM
RE: God or Nothing
(21-05-2012 02:13 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(20-05-2012 02:06 PM)kim Wrote:  Weeping
Can't have that! Here's some Lubos to cheer you up. Wink
Chanel, yes....
ironically, I wear Chance. Wink

   

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21-05-2012, 04:26 PM
RE: God or Nothing
Our intelligence is based on the drive to recognize patterns. Other animals have intelligence based on the same thing.

Whatever presents itself to us, we have to see a pattern or we keep looking for one.

This is, for example, why people get addicted to gambling. Random events are unfathomable to us. People will spend hours and hours sitting in front of a slot machine trying to find patterns. Find the pattern and you win. Well, duh, there is no pattern. You are staring at a random thing.

So people make up patterns, like betting higher and lower amounts in a pattern, playing more or less lines in a pattern, kissing the machine, wiping a little teddy over the screen, in other words, they are making up patterns to fill the void.

We as humans cannot stand randomness. Hence poor Egor is trying so hard to prove that the beginning of the universe was not a random event.

Religions alleviate our agony by taking out all the randomness. Everything is planned by someone, and we are just too dumb to understand the hows and whys. That way we don't have to agonize over random events anymore.

That is why religions have survived the times. Our brains are dependent on patterns, it is what makes up our cognitive abilities.

Random events are scary until you understand that they are most wonderful.

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21-05-2012, 05:00 PM
RE: God or Nothing
(21-05-2012 03:59 PM)Egor Wrote:  
(21-05-2012 04:33 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Because that is what man is like. We try to make sense of things that at the time we cannot make sense of.
The truth is we don't know what was before the big bang (I haven't read to much into the big bang but even I think that theory of a big bang is a little sketchy. I really should read into more however), we don't know why we have come to be other then how we came to be. Science can answer how it is possible we came to be, but not why. But just like the world hundreds of years ago, maybe we just don't really know.
Yet.

Of course we don't "know." That's why we're here discussing it. That's why we take what we can observe and try to use logical reasoning to connect the dots.
well obviously we are not using logically reasoning to connect the dots because we still have religion in the world.

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21-05-2012, 09:03 PM
RE: God or Nothing
(21-05-2012 04:26 PM)Dom Wrote:  Our intelligence is based on the drive to recognize patterns. Other animals have intelligence based on the same thing.

Whatever presents itself to us, we have to see a pattern or we keep looking for one.

This is, for example, why people get addicted to gambling. Random events are unfathomable to us. People will spend hours and hours sitting in front of a slot machine trying to find patterns. Find the pattern and you win. Well, duh, there is no pattern. You are staring at a random thing.

So people make up patterns, like betting higher and lower amounts in a pattern, playing more or less lines in a pattern, kissing the machine, wiping a little teddy over the screen, in other words, they are making up patterns to fill the void.

We as humans cannot stand randomness. Hence poor Egor is trying so hard to prove that the beginning of the universe was not a random event.

Religions alleviate our agony by taking out all the randomness. Everything is planned by someone, and we are just too dumb to understand the hows and whys. That way we don't have to agonize over random events anymore.

That is why religions have survived the times. Our brains are dependent on patterns, it is what makes up our cognitive abilities.

Random events are scary until you understand that they are most wonderful.
Nicely done. Would love to sit down at a hold 'em table some with you some day. Would make for some good conversation.

Hold 'em is one of those games that provides a subtle window into both human nature and the fundamental nature of reality.

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22-05-2012, 05:57 AM
RE: God or Nothing
Yeah, what Dom said. And the need for purpose comes from not having to spend all our time looking for something to eat. The supermarkets go away, and god will go back to being intoxicated gibberish spouted around the drum circle. After supper. Tongue

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22-05-2012, 06:09 AM
RE: God or Nothing
(22-05-2012 05:57 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Yeah, what Dom said. And the need for purpose comes from not having to spend all our time looking for something to eat. The supermarkets go away, and god will go back to being intoxicated gibberish spouted around the drum circle. After supper. Tongue


Precisely. And we know from Rodney King, Sarajevo, and the earthquake, the supermarket goes away in less than three days, (unless yer up on da roof with yer gun).

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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