God's Irrelevance
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28-07-2015, 07:11 AM
RE: God's Irrelevance
(28-07-2015 07:07 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(28-07-2015 07:02 AM)rezider Wrote:  Yes, I don't see what's the problem. You've said an incorrect thing, thinking and claiming to be true. It turned out it wasn't true - a falsehood.

You've heard this phrase in countless movies: 'I've been living a lie.' When scientists first believed that the universe was eternal, they were 'living a lie.' You forgot that your glasses were at spot A, so you made an incorrect assumption that they are at spot B. If you don't like the word, just use a different one. It makes no difference.

And they are not lies if you emphasize the other parts of the definition you offered:

"LIE
noun
1.
a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth"

If a lie requires deliberate intent, intentionality, than none of the above examples would be lies.

You agree correct?

If you don't than you're a liar. Smile

Sophistry is a very intellectually dishonest way of approaching a discussion.

The dictionary doesn't just tell you what a word is used for but the meaning in context as well.

I will stop here because I have not intentions of dealing with fallacies and sophistry.

"I don't know where I'm going, but I'm on my way." - Carl Sagan
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28-07-2015, 07:16 AM
RE: God's Irrelevance
(28-07-2015 07:11 AM)rezider Wrote:  
(28-07-2015 07:07 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  And they are not lies if you emphasize the other parts of the definition you offered:

"LIE
noun
1.
a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth"

If a lie requires deliberate intent, intentionality, than none of the above examples would be lies.

You agree correct?

If you don't than you're a liar. Smile

Sophistry is a very intellectually dishonest way of approaching a discussion.

The dictionary doesn't just tell you what a word is used for but the meaning in context as well.

I will stop here because I have not intentions of dealing with fallacies and sophistry.

The common understanding of lie is described by the first definition. When someone tells you they've been lied to, or when you recognize that you've told a lie, people understand the meaning of lie here, to imply intentionality. That there was " deliberate intent".

When a parents ask their child why did they lie, it's a question of why they deliberately tried to deceive them.

If you're trying to act like you didn't know all this already, it's not me whose being intellectually dishonest here, it's you, whose trying to profit from equivocating. So cut the crap.
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28-07-2015, 12:05 PM
RE: God's Irrelevance
(28-07-2015 07:11 AM)rezider Wrote:  
(28-07-2015 07:07 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  And they are not lies if you emphasize the other parts of the definition you offered:

"LIE
noun
1.
a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth"

If a lie requires deliberate intent, intentionality, than none of the above examples would be lies.

You agree correct?

If you don't than you're a liar. Smile

Sophistry is a very intellectually dishonest way of approaching a discussion.

The dictionary doesn't just tell you what a word is used for but the meaning in context as well.

I will stop here because I have not intentions of dealing with fallacies and sophistry.

Part of the problem with using a dictionary definition is that they are not made for philosophical debates. Words can often accrue multiple and even contradictory meanings overtime and these can be included in the dictionary. For example the word literal has had the meaning "figurative" added to its definition. However, if we were having an honest debate and you mentioned that something was literal, I would probably not understand you to mean figurative.

To follow upon this, from a philosophical point of view, the definition you have is bad.
First of all, two of its definitions are semi-contradictory. If all falsehoods are lies, then to state that intentional falsehoods are also lies is redundant. If it is not redundant then "all falsehoods are lies" is false.
Also to point out. In no way does it say that all falsehoods are lies. It says that a lie is a falsehood, which is a true statement. However, All A is B does not also mean that All B is A.
In general when we use "lie" and "liar", we tend to give it a moral sense, in that one who lies is a bad person morally. Thus we would not say that our doctor is a morally bad person because they gave a false diagnoses. We would say that they were wrong, this carries the meaning that they told a falsehood without the intention of deceiving thus not harming the reputation of the doctor.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
- my friend Marc
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28-07-2015, 12:15 PM
RE: God's Irrelevance
(28-07-2015 07:07 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(28-07-2015 07:02 AM)rezider Wrote:  Yes, I don't see what's the problem. You've said an incorrect thing, thinking and claiming to be true. It turned out it wasn't true - a falsehood.

You've heard this phrase in countless movies: 'I've been living a lie.' When scientists first believed that the universe was eternal, they were 'living a lie.' You forgot that your glasses were at spot A, so you made an incorrect assumption that they are at spot B. If you don't like the word, just use a different one. It makes no difference.

And they are not lies if you emphasize the other parts of the definition you offered:

"LIE
noun
1.
a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth"

If a lie requires deliberate intent, intentionality, than none of the above examples would be lies.

You agree correct?

If you don't than you're a liar. Smile

While a the person promoting religion might not be a liar per se - they ARE still promoting a lie.

We'll go "guilt by association".

The RICO statutes should apply....

Smartass

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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28-07-2015, 12:24 PM
RE: God's Irrelevance
(28-07-2015 12:15 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  While a the person promoting religion might not be a liar per se - they ARE still promoting a lie.

You think their promoting a lie, they think you're promoting a lie. They see themselves as conveying the truth, you see yourself as conveying the truth.
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28-07-2015, 01:09 PM
RE: God's Irrelevance
(28-07-2015 12:24 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(28-07-2015 12:15 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  While a the person promoting religion might not be a liar per se - they ARE still promoting a lie.

You think their promoting a lie, they think you're promoting a lie. They see themselves as conveying the truth, you see yourself as conveying the truth.

I'm not promoting ANYTHING ....

I've never pounded on someone's door on Saturday morning to "share the word"...

I don't make any fantastical claims of a relationship with "the guy who created the universe".

I don't claim to have any esoteric knowledge about shit that can't be observed, tested and verified.

I just come here on this board to laugh in amazement at the delusional types that do....

That, and I heard there's free beer - but thus far it hasn't been sighted and verified.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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28-07-2015, 05:44 PM
RE: God's Irrelevance
If only Ludwig Wittgenstein were here...

"I don't know where I'm going, but I'm on my way." - Carl Sagan
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28-07-2015, 10:29 PM
RE: God's Irrelevance
(28-07-2015 01:09 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(28-07-2015 12:24 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  You think their promoting a lie, they think you're promoting a lie. They see themselves as conveying the truth, you see yourself as conveying the truth.

I'm not promoting ANYTHING ....

I've never pounded on someone's door on Saturday morning to "share the word"...

I don't make any fantastical claims of a relationship with "the guy who created the universe".

I don't claim to have any esoteric knowledge about shit that can't be observed, tested and verified.

I just come here on this board to laugh in amazement at the delusional types that do....

That, and I heard there's free beer - but thus far it hasn't been sighted and verified.

You have to believe there's beer first before it will reveal itself to you.
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29-07-2015, 12:07 AM
RE: God's Irrelevance
(28-07-2015 10:29 PM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  
(28-07-2015 01:09 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I'm not promoting ANYTHING ....

I've never pounded on someone's door on Saturday morning to "share the word"...

I don't make any fantastical claims of a relationship with "the guy who created the universe".

I don't claim to have any esoteric knowledge about shit that can't be observed, tested and verified.

I just come here on this board to laugh in amazement at the delusional types that do....

That, and I heard there's free beer - but thus far it hasn't been sighted and verified.

You have to believe there's beer first before it will reveal itself to you.

I thought you could only experience the beer after your account was deleted. Unless of course it was deleted and you didn't contribute financially to the board in which case, once your account is deleted you will forever be sober.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
- my friend Marc
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