God's Laws
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22-03-2016, 10:24 AM
RE: God's Laws
(22-03-2016 09:42 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  How is it a moral guideline that we should love God who gave us life and fresh air and food more than our families, by comparison?
Prove it.

(22-03-2016 09:42 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I love Shakespeare's mind, heart and words--never said hello to him.
This is inane to the point of absurdity.
We are not being asked to worship Shakespeare.
No one is killing babies in the name of Macbeth.
No one is yelling "Hamlet is Great!" and flying airplanes into skyscrapers.
No one is saying "Foreskin o Foreskin, where art thou foreskin" and mutilating babies.

(22-03-2016 09:42 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  If God is a fraction of the size in scope and power you or I think he might be, please detail for me below why He should personally greet and visit you.
Because your arguments are pathetic and do not convince anyone.

(22-03-2016 09:42 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Please also explain why He says in the Bible He hides Himself from sinners but YOU DESERVE a personal visit.
Why don't we deserve a visit? Saul of Tarsus was a sinner. He had a Damascus Road conversion.



Please provide proof of your god. Please cite links to scientifically verifiable evidence, preferably studies, preferably published in peer-reviewed journals.

Please do not cite the bible. Using the bible to prove the bible is a fallacy.

Evidence 1:

Evidence 2:

Evidence 3:

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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22-03-2016, 11:14 AM
RE: God's Laws
(22-03-2016 09:33 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(18-03-2016 09:49 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  You seem to have missed to answer my questions. Please try again.

So you are just following orders and proclamations? Thats not being moral.

But lets continue anyhow. I will add more questions if you dont mind (i am a very curious person).
What values are gods "moral standards" based on?
Are those moral standards absolute? Like "thou shalt not kill" for example.
So, you dont support moral relativism?

God's moral standards proceed from His character. . God is loving and just .....
Thats a non-answer. What are gods values on which his morals are based? "Character" as an answer is not even the correct category.
How do you determine he is "loving" and just"?

The Q Continuum Wrote:We both know "good people" including atheists whose standards don't come from a book but from their conscience
I do, you dont. You said that atheists cant be moral without a bible:
The Q Continuum Wrote:Don't take that wrongly--no offense is implied--but you are all law flaunters and lawbreakers of God's law

The Q Continuum Wrote:God's standards are absolute
Really? In your answer below you -and the bible- seem to have a completely different point of view
The Q Continuum Wrote:Is killing immoral, or does it depend on who does the killing?
**Here is a big problem for the atheist. The Bible states that state-sanctioned execution, of say, murderers, is killing that isn't murder. I have no problem with that.
Your above statement indicates that you are a moral relativist and killing is allowed, given some pre-conditions.

In addition to that: Why do you need a (not really, as i have demonstrated) absolute "thou shalt not kill", if you follow your own morals anyhow?
The Q Continuum Wrote:Would you go and rape and kill if your god wouldnt order you otherwise?
**No.

The Q Continuum Wrote:The Bible's moral standards are exemplary and revelatory.
Like condoning slavery?
Again, the bibles standards are gods standards. What values are gods moral standards based on?

How often will you not answer this question again?

I am also still waiting for an answer to this topic:
Deesse23 Wrote:
The Q Continuum Wrote:Is infinite punishment for a finite crime just and moral?
**Absolutely not. However, Hell is eternal punishment that is NOT infinite.
Deesse23 Wrote:Why not?
Please explain the difference between "eternal" and "infinite". Which part of "eternal" is finite?

Please answer and convert me. For the sake of my immortal soul! Please dont make me suffer in eternal but not infinite Consider hell.
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22-03-2016, 12:59 PM
RE: God's Laws
(22-03-2016 09:42 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(18-03-2016 01:14 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  I'm not understanding how you can say "The fact that atheist's understand...blah blah blah." You are making a general statement about all atheists and it's not even true. Many atheists are spiritual and still believe in a soul and even fate, karma, etc. that may not be proven by science but they still think it exists.

I think you are being blinded by all the people on this forum who prefer science and logic when in a debate but not all atheists are the same. I wouldn't judge all Christians based on the things you have said since I know they are all different.

I certainly do believe in love and I do love my fellow man but of course my love has standards just like everyone, I'm not going to love a serial rapist or a murderer for example. But, since you think love is something that is transcendental let's see what the Bible has to say about it:

Matthew 34“Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35“For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW; 36and A MAN’S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD.
37“He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38“And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39“He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.

Here Jesus states he didn't come to Earth to bring peace but war, he will drive families apart and he demands that all people love him more than they love their own families, if not they aren't worthy of him. Is that what love is? How is that a moral guideline? Yes you can love just not too much, not more than you love God. Why should I love an invisible being that has never even had the courtesy to say "Hello" to me once my entire life more than my family/friends? Why should anyone love Jesus more than their kids? How would that make their lives better in any way?

I judged atheists wrongly with my post? Please tell me which atheist you know who says soul music comes from deep within a person's SOUL.

How is it a moral guideline that we should love God who gave us life and fresh air and food more than our families, by comparison? How is it a moral guideline that I should love someone who died for me more than someone who took risks for me and fed me and clothed me?

Quote:Why should I love an invisible being that has never even had the courtesy to say "Hello" to me once my entire life more than my family/friends?

I love Shakespeare's mind, heart and words--never said hello to him. But I have his writings, his legacy. God is saying hello to you right now through me. But you are not a child, and have no right--no matter how embittered an atheist you might be someday--to get ticked off and say--I don't like all these ambassadors, Bible preachers, even presidential candidates, who tells me things about God... I'M IMPORTANT! I deserve not ambassadors but a personal God visit!

If God is a fraction of the size in scope and power you or I think he might be, please detail for me below why He should personally greet and visit you. Please also explain why He says in the Bible He hides Himself from sinners but YOU DESERVE a personal visit:

Reason 1:

Reason 2:

Reason 3:

I don't need to give 3 reasons why your God should visit me, I only have one but it's a good one.

First let's set up the premise and use the definition of God that every Christian has given me:God/Yahweh and his son Jesus are all loving, all knowing, all powerful and all merciful.

God divinely inspired a book about his works and teachings, this should be good enough for everyone to believe in him and yet it's not. It's not good enough for me so I guess he needs to try another tactic doesn't he? Not all humans are the same, we all learn in different ways, some people can't even read so do they just not get to go to Heaven because they couldn't' read the Bible? Is that merciful?

He knows just what it would take to make me believe, he is all knowing after all and he knows what kind of person I am. If he is truly all merciful and all loving he could look past my sin of not believing and would in fact feel obligated to do so and save me since he's also all good. Being all powerful there would be nothing stopping him from doing whatever it took to convince me, if anything if he was able to convince a hard core atheist like me in a way where I would feel inspired to go out and teach everyone he would gain even more converts, so it's a win-win for both of us. I guess he just doesn't care about saving souls? He's not all loving or all powerful? He doesn't know how to make all people believe in him? He's scared and "hiding" from the sinners who arguably need him the most. Hmm doesn't sound like a being worthy of worship, he seems pretty weak and flawed actually.

If that's not a good enough reason for God to pay me a personal visit and it doesn't have to be a visit, than I don't know what is. I would expect any good person to do whatever it takes to save someone they knew would be tortured, how can I expect any less from an all loving God? It's not like we can say "Well he wants us to choose freely." Well it's not a fair choice, I don't even know if he's real or if Heaven/Hell are real places so being a different kind of person than Q and the other believers does God just stop trying?

So to use your words "If God is a fraction of the size in scope and power you or I think he might be...." why can't he truly convince the 7 billion souls on this planet that he is real, wants to save them and give them the actual choice?

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22-03-2016, 01:08 PM
RE: God's Laws
(22-03-2016 09:37 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(18-03-2016 01:02 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  You can't say your moral standards come from God and scriptures when there are so many immoral verses in the Bible any truly moral person would dismiss. Do you think it's moral to own slaves? Do you think the many Christians in this country who owned slaved and used the Bible to defend it were good people?

I have already given you links to articles that explain morality without God you clearly didn't read but it all boils down to evolutionary instincts, we feel good when we do good things for a reason and as humans progress we will learn more about ethics and social contracts to form a stronger foundation for morals and law without using religion.

Let me give you a couple verses to test your moral objectivity with:

James 4:11-12 "11 Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?"

and

Romans 2:1-3 "1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?"

You say an atheist shouldn't be able to serve on a jury or as a judge, this Bible verse clearly states only God can judge your fellow man, not you. You are only a human and can't judge the morality of your "neighbor". Your statements are in direct conflict with your moral standards, the scriptures of the Bible. Do you think judging all the atheists on this forum is a good thing even though your objective moral law forbids it?

You wrote:

Quote:You can't say your moral standards come from God and scriptures when there are so many immoral verses in the Bible any truly moral person would dismiss.

I think a better statement is: "There are so many seemingly immoral verses in the Bible any truly moral person would ponder and grapple with."

I'm not opening my mind to some verses and shutting them to others. All have teachings for us!

The verses you've cited need to be added to other verses--the OT alone has at least six verses I can think of where God LOVES when believers judge. And there is the entire book of JUDGES. Take a look at Matthew 7, Romans 1's end before Romans 2, etc. carefully. Christians are both better qualified to judge and admonished to be non-judgmental persons. Is there a difference to parse? You bet there is. We all know people who make good judgments, and people who are judgmental. I seem super-judgmental at TTA, but that's because I daily have atheists asking and/or challenging me to make moral judgments!

The only thing your comment is proving is how contradictory and convoluted your holy book is, "Oh wait, you don't like that one part that is immoral and evil?..ok hold on...Here! I just found one that is totally the opposite and it's all nice and loving, see?"

Yeah I do see but that doesn't make any sense and it's still an immoral book that contradicts itself so much to the point of being almost impossible to decipher, just like all Christians you have to "grapple" with the meanings because why would an all knowing God give us a book that can be easily understood? No, that's not how you save souls, you have to make them work for it. You have to make them set aside their own personal moral values and scare them with the prospect of eternal torture. Yeah, that's the ticket!

Give me a break Q, I thought you could do better than this. I have read the Bible as a believer and I "grappled" with the immoral verses and nothing made me feel better and then I realized "Wait, this book was written by ignorant sheep herders during the Bronze Age, I don't have to ponder this at all, it's all myth and fantasy." Just because I came away from it with a different interpretation doesn't mean it's a wrong interpretation. At least I'm not the one who has to make excuses for a book that condones slavery, rape, genocide, misogyny, etc. I would rather be a better person than that and reject it so until God can show himself I will continue to do so.

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23-03-2016, 09:57 AM
RE: God's Laws
(22-03-2016 10:13 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(22-03-2016 09:33 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  God's moral standards proceed from His character.
The only way we know anything about your god's character is the bible and the word of his chosen speakers.

The bible:
In Genesis your god kills almost everything on earth, including animals, plants, babies and unborn fetuses. In Exodus, your god hardens Pharaoh's heart, not allowing him to let the Jews go, then slaughters all the first born of Egypt. Lots of dead innocent babies there.

We continue with blood sacrifice, genital mutilation, slavery, rape, genocide.

Your god describes himself as vengeful, jealous and angry.

The loving jesus condemns everyone to an eternal torment, except those who worship him. Eternal, ultimate suffering for the decision that must be made in the equivalent of a microsecond. That's assuming that you even get to hear about jesus. Sorry unborn babies.

Moving right along, let's look at those who speak for god.

Moses?
Lot?
The clergy who supported modern slavery?
The pedophiles of the church?

I'm not seeing a lot of evidence for a loving god.

(22-03-2016 09:33 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Moral relativism claims that no moral standard(s) can be privileged or "better than" all others. I respectfully disagree. The Bible's moral standards are exemplary and revelatory.

So a woman is raped and she must marry her rapist.
Quote:Deuteronomy 22
22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

This is extremely revelatory about the character and quality of your god and his laws.

Well, you did manage to redact over 60 documents with 40 authors/teams of authors down to a few "well chosen" ideas! There's a lot more to the Bible then the scant little you've shared out of context!

Not to mention you skipped the verses--of course you did, since you got them off some atheist site--where if the woman "taken and lieth down with" cries out, as in "rape, not consensual!" you KILL the dude...

But if two unmarrieds have consensual relations, they are to do the right thing, like Spike Lee said.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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23-03-2016, 10:01 AM
RE: God's Laws
(22-03-2016 11:14 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(22-03-2016 09:33 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  God's moral standards proceed from His character. . God is loving and just .....
Thats a non-answer. What are gods values on which his morals are based? "Character" as an answer is not even the correct category.
How do you determine he is "loving" and just"?

The Q Continuum Wrote:We both know "good people" including atheists whose standards don't come from a book but from their conscience
I do, you dont. You said that atheists cant be moral without a bible:
The Q Continuum Wrote:Don't take that wrongly--no offense is implied--but you are all law flaunters and lawbreakers of God's law

The Q Continuum Wrote:God's standards are absolute
Really? In your answer below you -and the bible- seem to have a completely different point of view
The Q Continuum Wrote:Is killing immoral, or does it depend on who does the killing?
**Here is a big problem for the atheist. The Bible states that state-sanctioned execution, of say, murderers, is killing that isn't murder. I have no problem with that.
Your above statement indicates that you are a moral relativist and killing is allowed, given some pre-conditions.

In addition to that: Why do you need a (not really, as i have demonstrated) absolute "thou shalt not kill", if you follow your own morals anyhow?
The Q Continuum Wrote:Would you go and rape and kill if your god wouldnt order you otherwise?
**No.

The Q Continuum Wrote:The Bible's moral standards are exemplary and revelatory.
Like condoning slavery?
Again, the bibles standards are gods standards. What values are gods moral standards based on?

How often will you not answer this question again?

I am also still waiting for an answer to this topic:

Please answer and convert me. For the sake of my immortal soul! Please dont make me suffer in eternal but not infinite Consider hell.

Moral relativism is saying one moral system is not superior to another. I disagree.

A simple reading of the Bible--the entire Bible, not two verses out of context you heard about at TTA--shows God is loving and just. Surely, you aren't unaware that many religions struggle with a just AND loving God--these two facets meet at the cross:

God is just and should punish sinners, so He punishes Christ for the love of mankind.

The eternal punishment of Hell--if you believe in it--many fine Christians are annihiliationists instead--isn't finite in duration, but it is finite in power/pain. Jesus's words about some beaten with few (or many stripes) is encouraging. Knowing that a Stalin or Tung gets it worse whereas a good atheist like yourself has it easier is indeed comforting. Of course, those men may have never killed someone with sex--and if you are immoral and aren't tested, you may have killed someone for your pleasure. What do you call someone who kills another for their pleasure? Are they heaven bound? Drinking Beverage

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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23-03-2016, 10:03 AM
RE: God's Laws
(22-03-2016 12:59 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  
(22-03-2016 09:42 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I judged atheists wrongly with my post? Please tell me which atheist you know who says soul music comes from deep within a person's SOUL.

How is it a moral guideline that we should love God who gave us life and fresh air and food more than our families, by comparison? How is it a moral guideline that I should love someone who died for me more than someone who took risks for me and fed me and clothed me?


I love Shakespeare's mind, heart and words--never said hello to him. But I have his writings, his legacy. God is saying hello to you right now through me. But you are not a child, and have no right--no matter how embittered an atheist you might be someday--to get ticked off and say--I don't like all these ambassadors, Bible preachers, even presidential candidates, who tells me things about God... I'M IMPORTANT! I deserve not ambassadors but a personal God visit!

If God is a fraction of the size in scope and power you or I think he might be, please detail for me below why He should personally greet and visit you. Please also explain why He says in the Bible He hides Himself from sinners but YOU DESERVE a personal visit:

Reason 1:

Reason 2:

Reason 3:

I don't need to give 3 reasons why your God should visit me, I only have one but it's a good one.

First let's set up the premise and use the definition of God that every Christian has given me:God/Yahweh and his son Jesus are all loving, all knowing, all powerful and all merciful.

God divinely inspired a book about his works and teachings, this should be good enough for everyone to believe in him and yet it's not. It's not good enough for me so I guess he needs to try another tactic doesn't he? Not all humans are the same, we all learn in different ways, some people can't even read so do they just not get to go to Heaven because they couldn't' read the Bible? Is that merciful?

He knows just what it would take to make me believe, he is all knowing after all and he knows what kind of person I am. If he is truly all merciful and all loving he could look past my sin of not believing and would in fact feel obligated to do so and save me since he's also all good. Being all powerful there would be nothing stopping him from doing whatever it took to convince me, if anything if he was able to convince a hard core atheist like me in a way where I would feel inspired to go out and teach everyone he would gain even more converts, so it's a win-win for both of us. I guess he just doesn't care about saving souls? He's not all loving or all powerful? He doesn't know how to make all people believe in him? He's scared and "hiding" from the sinners who arguably need him the most. Hmm doesn't sound like a being worthy of worship, he seems pretty weak and flawed actually.

If that's not a good enough reason for God to pay me a personal visit and it doesn't have to be a visit, than I don't know what is. I would expect any good person to do whatever it takes to save someone they knew would be tortured, how can I expect any less from an all loving God? It's not like we can say "Well he wants us to choose freely." Well it's not a fair choice, I don't even know if he's real or if Heaven/Hell are real places so being a different kind of person than Q and the other believers does God just stop trying?

So to use your words "If God is a fraction of the size in scope and power you or I think he might be...." why can't he truly convince the 7 billion souls on this planet that he is real, wants to save them and give them the actual choice?

So it sounds like your only reason for God to visit YOU is YOU don't believe. How come I was able to believe without the necessity of a visit? Why do I have to believe without a visit but YOU get an easier path? That sounds unfair to me!

Reasons why YOU should get special treatment, above hundreds of millions of believers who've never met/seen God yet:

Reason 1:

Reason 2:

Reason 3:

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23-03-2016, 10:05 AM
RE: God's Laws
(22-03-2016 01:08 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  
(22-03-2016 09:37 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You wrote:


I think a better statement is: "There are so many seemingly immoral verses in the Bible any truly moral person would ponder and grapple with."

I'm not opening my mind to some verses and shutting them to others. All have teachings for us!

The verses you've cited need to be added to other verses--the OT alone has at least six verses I can think of where God LOVES when believers judge. And there is the entire book of JUDGES. Take a look at Matthew 7, Romans 1's end before Romans 2, etc. carefully. Christians are both better qualified to judge and admonished to be non-judgmental persons. Is there a difference to parse? You bet there is. We all know people who make good judgments, and people who are judgmental. I seem super-judgmental at TTA, but that's because I daily have atheists asking and/or challenging me to make moral judgments!

The only thing your comment is proving is how contradictory and convoluted your holy book is, "Oh wait, you don't like that one part that is immoral and evil?..ok hold on...Here! I just found one that is totally the opposite and it's all nice and loving, see?"

Yeah I do see but that doesn't make any sense and it's still an immoral book that contradicts itself so much to the point of being almost impossible to decipher, just like all Christians you have to "grapple" with the meanings because why would an all knowing God give us a book that can be easily understood? No, that's not how you save souls, you have to make them work for it. You have to make them set aside their own personal moral values and scare them with the prospect of eternal torture. Yeah, that's the ticket!

Give me a break Q, I thought you could do better than this. I have read the Bible as a believer and I "grappled" with the immoral verses and nothing made me feel better and then I realized "Wait, this book was written by ignorant sheep herders during the Bronze Age, I don't have to ponder this at all, it's all myth and fantasy." Just because I came away from it with a different interpretation doesn't mean it's a wrong interpretation. At least I'm not the one who has to make excuses for a book that condones slavery, rape, genocide, misogyny, etc. I would rather be a better person than that and reject it so until God can show himself I will continue to do so.

1. I hardly think the Bible is tough to decipher. Rather, there are in its many pages a few passages that are tough to follow/understand and a great many that you don't WANT to obey.

2. I don't have to "make excuses" for slavery in a book that contains indentured servitude. I have to defend truth from atheists telling half-truths.

3. How do you know you're a "better person"? So far, we have:

* YOU are better than those stupid bronze age sheep

* YOU deserve/demand special treatment, as God HAS to visit YOU before you trust Him but I never had that leg up in life

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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23-03-2016, 10:34 AM
RE: God's Laws
(23-03-2016 09:57 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Well, you did manage to redact over 60 documents with 40 authors/teams of authors down to a few "well chosen" ideas! There's a lot more to the Bible then the scant little you've shared out of context!
Would you like me to post the entire bible? And yes, I left many of the atrocities out.

(23-03-2016 09:57 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Not to mention you skipped the verses--of course you did, since you got them off some atheist site--where if the woman "taken and lieth down with" cries out, as in "rape, not consensual!" you KILL the dude...
First of all, if the text I quoted is not correct then post the correct text.

Second of all, the passage you cited is directly above the verses I cited. It is a separate example.

In other words, it does not apply to the verses/example I cited.

And here's one you left out:

Quote:
Deuteronomy
22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
22:24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

A woman is raped. She is then stoned to death because she didn't yell loud enough.

This is your god.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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23-03-2016, 10:50 AM
RE: God's Laws
(23-03-2016 10:05 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  2. I don't have to "make excuses" for slavery in a book that contains indentured servitude. I have to defend truth from atheists telling half-truths.

These are the passages that talk about indentured servitude.
Quote:Leviticus:
25:35 And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.
25:36 Take thou no usury of him, or increase: but fear thy God; that thy brother may live with thee.
25:37 Thou shalt not give him thy money upon usury, nor lend him thy victuals for increase.
25:38 I am the LORD your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, to give you the land of Canaan, and to be your God.
25:39 And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee ; thou shalt not compel him to serve as a bondservant:
25:40 But as an hired servant, and as a sojourner, he shall be with thee, and shall serve thee unto the year of jubile.
25:41 And then shall he depart from thee, both he and his children with him, and shall return unto his own family, and unto the possession of his fathers shall he return.
25:42 For they are my servants, which I brought forth out of the land of Egypt: they shall not be sold as bondmen.
25:43 Thou shalt not rule over him with rigour; but shalt fear thy God.

These are the passages about slavery:
Quote:Leviticus:
25:44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.
25:45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
25:46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.

Calling out someone for telling half truths while telling an outright lie?
That makes you a hypocrite and a liar.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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