God's Laws
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31-03-2016, 10:35 AM
RE: God's Laws
(31-03-2016 10:16 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(31-03-2016 10:15 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I would also figure vastly most atheists don't break most of the 10 commandments... the arbitrary line of whatever the hell honoring the sabbath is supposed to mean could be one.

Spoken like someone who hasn't considered the Decalogue in a while. I make it that atheists break something like 8 of 10, on average.

Spoken like someone who makes horrible data lacking assumptions about life. In the face of what reality and the numbers of humans in this world are and do.

Atheists don't have graven images or idols, don't put other gods before no other god, they don't take gods name in vain (in the actual sense unless you're one of those middle 20th century blinded focused view to think that is just saying god-damnit opposed to the meaning of doing things in the name of god,) they as most people honor mother and father(this like sabbath is making an arbtrary distinction on what you call "honoring," most people dont still commit adultery, I guess baring false witness is tough to say on a majority level, then there's another where is the line to call it coveting.

So a majority of atheists I would say, as with all people have stolen in their lives something. So That one counts. They don't honor the sabbath whatever that would entail to someone not believing.

On what grounds do you think atheists are breaking 8 of these? Are you gonna be one of those immature argument seeking folks who say, oh they worship actors or themselves, that's their idols and graven images is art.. etc. Those things aren't GODS. Most atheists aren't worshiping other gods or have graven images. (while in active deviance or combat to christians some Satanists could count there I suppose, that's not a significant group among all atheists though)

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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31-03-2016, 10:45 AM
RE: God's Laws
(31-03-2016 10:16 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Spoken like someone who hasn't considered the Decalogue in a while. I make it that atheists break something like 8 of 10, on average.

Q, i see you are still running around lying your ass of on a daily (hourly?) basis. Thats all ok, but why be so stupid and forget that you left evidence for your dishonesty in this very thread?

The bible says:
Quote:Exodus 20:13 “Thou shalt not kill.”
From KJV 1611

Q says:
The Q Continuum Wrote:The Bible states that state-sanctioned execution, of say, murderers, is killing that isn't murder. I have no problem with that.
Link

So that makes him

  1. A liar
  2. A violator of gods commandmends
  3. aaaaaand....a hypocrite


So you give a fuck about (at least) two of the ten commandmends, but claim that atheists break them regularly? Projection much?

What commandmends (apart from lying and murder) do you like to break as well? Do you steal often? Maybe dont honour your parents? Lusting for women? Tell us, im sure, you wont stop by breaking just two of em. We already know that you are an immoral, lying piece of shit, but how big of an immoral, lying piece of shit are you? Please enlighten us!
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31-03-2016, 11:08 AM
RE: God's Laws
As Q Continuum may have missed my earlier posting—judging by his lack of response—I've taken the liberty of reposting it here:

Quote:The Q Continuum Wrote:
God is just because He always act justly. He has treated me and others justly so I judge Him as just. [...]

I'd be interested in you interpretation of the following facts in light of your claim that your omnipotent god always acts justly:

In 2015, it was estimated that 5.9 million children under age five, or 16,000 every day died in sub-Saharan Africa. [Global Health Observatory (GHO) Data 2015 ]

From this I can only draw the conclusion that your putative god is not all-powerful; is in fact callous; is sadistic; is unjust; is capricious; is unintelligent; or more than likely a purely imaginary, mythical figure.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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31-03-2016, 12:18 PM (This post was last modified: 31-03-2016 03:23 PM by SitaSky.)
RE: God's Laws
(31-03-2016 10:15 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I can go with what you are presenting here, except for three exceptions that come to mind:

1. You never answered why I can believe without miracles and signs, yet you need special visitations and special things God didn't provide to me.

1. I answered this question twice already and I thought I was perfectly clear about it. Let me break it down even more simply so you can understand. Let's say you are teaching a class of small children and they are all learning the alphabet, you realize some of the children learn by copying the letters and sounding them out while others learn by singing the alphabet song and drawing things that start with the letter. If you decided to only teach all the kids by having them copy the letters you are not able to fully reach the children who are visual learners, do you get it now?

So basically if God wants me to know he is real and I've already read his book and consulted church leaders about it and found no reason to believe, he's going to have to use a different tactic right? It doesn't have to be a personal visit but since I require tangible proof and evidence something like a visit or even maybe a phone call would suffice and I still don't see how the Bible is the divine word of a God since you haven't given any proof that it can predict the future. You also said that God will speak to me as he has spoken to you, so what's he waiting for?

(31-03-2016 10:15 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  2. Whom did you study the Bible with? Reading a book and studying a book can be different things.

2. I don't need to "study" the Bible with another person to understand it but I did consult the priest of a church in the town I lived in with my mother who insisted I go and it didn't help. I also spoke to a born again preacher and a Mormon co-worker who had gone on a mission when he was younger and if anything their words only made me more sure that their God wasn't real, especially since they can't agree on basics like what can get you into Heaven and what Hell is like among other important aspects of their faith. I've also spoken to and debated many Christians over the years with an open mind, still nothing to convince me.

(31-03-2016 10:15 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You again speak of consulting God for answers. How did you miss in reading Jesus's words in the gospels--and elsewhere in the Bible--that consulting God is done in a far different place and frame of mind than in an atheist forum?

3. First of all I never implied or said that I had consulted God, I actually said the opposite. I wrote that atheists should not be expected to consult your God for anything if he is the all powerful one and truly wants to save us he should be reaching out to us, not the other way around. Also this is the first atheist forum I've ever belonged to and I just joined last month. I've been an atheist for almost 20 years so I did consider religion outside of this forum, when I first gave up religion I had wrestled with it for about 6 months and I never saw a sign from God. I agree, I wouldn't go looking for God on an atheist forum.

Now for you to answer the question you have been dodging, you clearly stated that the ONLY reason anyone should think the Bible is the inspired work of your God is because it has predictive powers of prophecy. Please list in detail the exact wording of the prophecies that have come true. I have answered your questions over and over and I only want the answer to one, I think out of courtesy you should answer this one.

Here is another link to a site that explains how the Bible prophecies or either unfulfilled or vaguely fulfilled to the point of absurdity:

Unfulfilled Bible Prophecies

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31-03-2016, 03:22 PM
RE: God's Laws
It's impossible to consider anything written in the Abrahamic bible as a true prophecy (a prediction of the future, made under divine inspiration; an event that is foretold by, or as if by, supernatural means).

A supposed prophecy would rely on the concomitancy of the supernatural and/or the paranormal (by definition), neither of which have ever been proved to exist as such. Ergo, no prophecy can exist.

At any rate, the bible failed to even mention in passing, let alone prophesise numerous major global events: the Black Death pandemic that killed 200 million people in the 14th century, the establishment of the British Empire in 1757, Crawford Williamson Long discovering anesthetics in 1842, the 1906 San Francisco earthquake, the 1908 Tunguska comet, the discovery of X-rays by Roentgen, World Wars I and II, the launch of Sputnik I in 1957, the 1969 Moon landing, the Vietnam war, Chernobyl nuclear disaster, 1991 Soviet Union breakup, WTC and other terrorist attacks etc.

It's more than obvious that any/all of the purported "prophecies" mentioned in the bible are nothing of the sort, and are simply the desperate attempts by Christians to match vaguely defined biblical terms with actual, physical events. There are zero genuine [sic] prophecies that foretold of any subsequent global events of any kind. End of story.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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01-04-2016, 09:56 AM
RE: God's Laws
(31-03-2016 12:18 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  
(31-03-2016 10:15 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I can go with what you are presenting here, except for three exceptions that come to mind:

1. You never answered why I can believe without miracles and signs, yet you need special visitations and special things God didn't provide to me.

1. I answered this question twice already and I thought I was perfectly clear about it. Let me break it down even more simply so you can understand. Let's say you are teaching a class of small children and they are all learning the alphabet, you realize some of the children learn by copying the letters and sounding them out while others learn by singing the alphabet song and drawing things that start with the letter. If you decided to only teach all the kids by having them copy the letters you are not able to fully reach the children who are visual learners, do you get it now?

So basically if God wants me to know he is real and I've already read his book and consulted church leaders about it and found no reason to believe, he's going to have to use a different tactic right? It doesn't have to be a personal visit but since I require tangible proof and evidence something like a visit or even maybe a phone call would suffice and I still don't see how the Bible is the divine word of a God since you haven't given any proof that it can predict the future. You also said that God will speak to me as he has spoken to you, so what's he waiting for?

(31-03-2016 10:15 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  2. Whom did you study the Bible with? Reading a book and studying a book can be different things.

2. I don't need to "study" the Bible with another person to understand it but I did consult the priest of a church in the town I lived in with my mother who insisted I go and it didn't help. I also spoke to a born again preacher and a Mormon co-worker who had gone on a mission when he was younger and if anything their words only made me more sure that their God wasn't real, especially since they can't agree on basics like what can get you into Heaven and what Hell is like among other important aspects of their faith. I've also spoken to and debated many Christians over the years with an open mind, still nothing to convince me.

(31-03-2016 10:15 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You again speak of consulting God for answers. How did you miss in reading Jesus's words in the gospels--and elsewhere in the Bible--that consulting God is done in a far different place and frame of mind than in an atheist forum?

3. First of all I never implied or said that I had consulted God, I actually said the opposite. I wrote that atheists should not be expected to consult your God for anything if he is the all powerful one and truly wants to save us he should be reaching out to us, not the other way around. Also this is the first atheist forum I've ever belonged to and I just joined last month. I've been an atheist for almost 20 years so I did consider religion outside of this forum, when I first gave up religion I had wrestled with it for about 6 months and I never saw a sign from God. I agree, I wouldn't go looking for God on an atheist forum.

Now for you to answer the question you have been dodging, you clearly stated that the ONLY reason anyone should think the Bible is the inspired work of your God is because it has predictive powers of prophecy. Please list in detail the exact wording of the prophecies that have come true. I have answered your questions over and over and I only want the answer to one, I think out of courtesy you should answer this one.

Here is another link to a site that explains how the Bible prophecies or either unfulfilled or vaguely fulfilled to the point of absurdity:

Unfulfilled Bible Prophecies

To answer both your questions... if you've read the Bible and prayed about what you read, it will happen for you, eventually, or no. But you aren't helping your cause here at TTA.

Here's one example of prophecy I'm "stuck on". I'd like to hear from an atheist its logical refutation:

Israel will be scattered to many nations, and in ALL of these nations, they will serve as shining lights there--as blessings--and in ALL of these nations, they will be hated and persecuted, and after a long time, they will be returned to their biblical geographic land, as a Jewish nation, surrounded by their enemies.

I hear talk of self-fulfilled prophecy. Do you think the Jews "self-fulfilled" being brilliant in the arts, culture and sciences, and then "self-fulfilled" being persecuted in dozens of nations on multiple continents?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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01-04-2016, 09:57 AM
RE: God's Laws
(01-04-2016 09:56 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(31-03-2016 12:18 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  1. I answered this question twice already and I thought I was perfectly clear about it. Let me break it down even more simply so you can understand. Let's say you are teaching a class of small children and they are all learning the alphabet, you realize some of the children learn by copying the letters and sounding them out while others learn by singing the alphabet song and drawing things that start with the letter. If you decided to only teach all the kids by having them copy the letters you are not able to fully reach the children who are visual learners, do you get it now?

So basically if God wants me to know he is real and I've already read his book and consulted church leaders about it and found no reason to believe, he's going to have to use a different tactic right? It doesn't have to be a personal visit but since I require tangible proof and evidence something like a visit or even maybe a phone call would suffice and I still don't see how the Bible is the divine word of a God since you haven't given any proof that it can predict the future. You also said that God will speak to me as he has spoken to you, so what's he waiting for?


2. I don't need to "study" the Bible with another person to understand it but I did consult the priest of a church in the town I lived in with my mother who insisted I go and it didn't help. I also spoke to a born again preacher and a Mormon co-worker who had gone on a mission when he was younger and if anything their words only made me more sure that their God wasn't real, especially since they can't agree on basics like what can get you into Heaven and what Hell is like among other important aspects of their faith. I've also spoken to and debated many Christians over the years with an open mind, still nothing to convince me.


3. First of all I never implied or said that I had consulted God, I actually said the opposite. I wrote that atheists should not be expected to consult your God for anything if he is the all powerful one and truly wants to save us he should be reaching out to us, not the other way around. Also this is the first atheist forum I've ever belonged to and I just joined last month. I've been an atheist for almost 20 years so I did consider religion outside of this forum, when I first gave up religion I had wrestled with it for about 6 months and I never saw a sign from God. I agree, I wouldn't go looking for God on an atheist forum.

Now for you to answer the question you have been dodging, you clearly stated that the ONLY reason anyone should think the Bible is the inspired work of your God is because it has predictive powers of prophecy. Please list in detail the exact wording of the prophecies that have come true. I have answered your questions over and over and I only want the answer to one, I think out of courtesy you should answer this one.

Here is another link to a site that explains how the Bible prophecies or either unfulfilled or vaguely fulfilled to the point of absurdity:

Unfulfilled Bible Prophecies

To answer both your questions... if you've read the Bible and prayed about what you read, it will happen for you, eventually, or no. But you aren't helping your cause here at TTA.

Here's one example of prophecy I'm "stuck on". I'd like to hear from an atheist its logical refutation:

Israel will be scattered to many nations, and in ALL of these nations, they will serve as shining lights there--as blessings--and in ALL of these nations, they will be hated and persecuted, and after a long time, they will be returned to their biblical geographic land, as a Jewish nation, surrounded by their enemies.

I hear talk of self-fulfilled prophecy. Do you think the Jews "self-fulfilled" being brilliant in the arts, culture and sciences, and then "self-fulfilled" being persecuted in dozens of nations on multiple continents?

Bucky has typed "Jesus is Lord". Why are you still here? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-04-2016, 09:59 AM
RE: God's Laws
(31-03-2016 11:08 AM)SYZ Wrote:  As Q Continuum may have missed my earlier posting—judging by his lack of response—I've taken the liberty of reposting it here:

Quote:The Q Continuum Wrote:
God is just because He always act justly. He has treated me and others justly so I judge Him as just. [...]

I'd be interested in you interpretation of the following facts in light of your claim that your omnipotent god always acts justly:

In 2015, it was estimated that 5.9 million children under age five, or 16,000 every day died in sub-Saharan Africa. [Global Health Observatory (GHO) Data 2015 ]

From this I can only draw the conclusion that your putative god is not all-powerful; is in fact callous; is sadistic; is unjust; is capricious; is unintelligent; or more than likely a purely imaginary, mythical figure.

But you drew your conclusion from far more than "this" as you wrote. Your conclusion was drawn from your thoughts about the moral reasons against child death.

I'm sure you realize the Bible explains that the state of man, and the universe and all the creatures in it, is death, since almost the beginning. I have no problem with children dying and going to Heaven--especially before they grow up to become atheists. I do have a problem when my children hurt or suffer--but I also have a peaceable understanding and perspective. I have, you might say, a long-term perspective.

Are you a person with a soul or "only" a fish in the sea? Most fish in the sea don't make it to adulthood. Most people, do. To quote OO7 in Spectre, "It's all a matter of perspective," and I've noticed--atheists very typically have half-full glasses in life, and about most things! Which makes sense, if you will die and some years later, be unremembered, be nothing, and have nothing.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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01-04-2016, 10:10 AM
RE: God's Laws
(01-04-2016 09:57 AM)Chas Wrote:  Bucky has typed "Jesus is Lord". Why are you still here? Consider

Silly Chas. He was just foolin' around.




#sigh
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01-04-2016, 10:30 AM
RE: God's Laws
(01-04-2016 09:59 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I have no problem with children dying and going to Heaven--especially before they grow up to become atheists.

Better dead than atheist? That says a great deal about your character.

Are all those non-xtian children going to heaven? The muslims? The atheist children? The unbaptized? Depending on who you talk to, some or all of them are in hell.

(01-04-2016 09:59 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I have, you might say, a long-term perspective.

You described your perspective above. From where I'm standing it's pretty fucked up.

(01-04-2016 09:59 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Are you a person with a soul or "only" a fish in the sea? Most fish in the sea don't make it to adulthood. Most people, do. To quote OO7 in Spectre, "It's all a matter of perspective," and I've noticed--atheists very typically have half-full glasses in life, and about most things! Which makes sense, if you will die and some years later, be unremembered, be nothing, and have nothing.

We are animals. This has been proven beyond all doubt, in multiple ways. Devout xtian scientists spent their entire lives trying to prove we weren't animals, but were unable to do so.

Do we have a soul? Define soul. If you mean something that continues after death, no. Nothing has ever been described scientifically that indicates a soul.

And no, most people do not make it to adulthood. According to you, your god invented infant mortality, natural miscarriages, disease, and all those other cruelties. The population is increasing, so more live than die, but I would not say most. Of course, you could quote some statistics, references, but I notice you don't do that, do you?

Yes, when we die we will be forgotten. Once everyone that knew you is gone, you will be forgotten. Even the few who make it into history are mostly forgotten. We know some facts, some events that happened, but we usually don't know them really.

You were not here before. You are here now. Eventually, you will be gone.
There's nothing you can do but enjoy the time you have.

So put on your big-boy-pants and quit whining about it.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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